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  1. #76
    GrantNKY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    And you deserve to watch them never win anything. That's what you apparently want. Mediocrity makes you happy apparently.
    5/6 years making the playoffs is not mediocrity.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    Actually what I would have said was I was glad to see Andy finally looked like he turned the corner and learned how to put the team in his back in crunch time.

    I fave Andy plenty of kudos that season for how he played that year. The only problem is he didn't do that in the playoff game did he?
    So the rest of the game didn't matter that AJ played pretty mediocre? He lobbed one pass up to AJ and all of the sudden he deserves to be the QB? Come on man. You just want something different, not something better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    I do have some idea. In the times he has played for the Bengals, I haven't seen anything that tells me he would be better. Using your criteria, he played in the playoff game against the Steelers and couldn't score more than 20 points nor get a win.
    Well in 6 years 11 games against the Steelers Dalton has only scored more than 20 3 times. McCarron in a backup role came in and scored more than 20 the game Dalton got hurt, then the playoff game he scored what Dalton basically averages against the Steelers.

    Also in 4 games McCarron does look better than Dalton did at that point in his first 4 games. Especially in big games. Shoot Dalton his first 4 years in the NFL was having ratings below 20, and I believe recorded the 2nd worst qbr rating ever in a prime time game against the browns.

    Would McCarron be perfect, no. Would McCarron get better with more experience, most likely. Would McCarron give us a better chance in big games because his mindset is better for the big games than Dalton? Based off a small sample size I say yes. Could he end up sucking, definitely. What we do know is after 6 years Dalton has shown us no reason to believe he will finally figure it out in those big moments.

    I don't know for sure. What I do know is Dalton is slowly becoming like Lewis. Does good enough to keep his job, but his flaws can keep us from getting over the top. I would say most agree we kept Lewis 2 or 3 more years at least than we should have. At what point do we say ok Dalton isn't going to get it done? Or do we just wait and say darn it maybe we should have went a different direction before our window closed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantNKY View Post
    So the rest of the game didn't matter that AJ played pretty mediocre? He lobbed one pass up to AJ and all of the sudden he deserves to be the QB? Come on man. You just want something different, not something better.
    You have no idea if it wouldn't be better or not. I admit I can't guarntee McCarron would give us a better chance. However you can't guarntee he wouldn't. So when you all get on here and act like wow people are crazy to think McCarron would do better. People are going to state why. You may disagree but doesn't mean you know for sure either. What I do know is 6 years of data supports Dalton and even his mindset struggle big time under the bright lights and playoffs. Which is not the best ingredient for success for a team looking to win a playoff game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantNKY View Post
    Andys first 5 years in the league were arguably the most sustained period of success in franchise history. He has earned the right to be this teams QB for years to come. The playoff wins will come.
    If they don't, do we say darn it, shucks. If only there would have been a sign to let us know that his mind set is not great in the big moments and we would never get over the top with him.

    There are many qbs in the NFL when paired with top 10 defenses for 5 years, a top 5 wr, a top 5 TE when healthy, and even a top 5 running game one year. Who would have led their teams with all that.

    Dalton undeniably has been surrounded by the best talent in Bengals qb history in terms of both sides of the ball. So my question I will continue to ask, is when is it time to move on? Do you really take a do or die stance and just hope Dalton figures out how to play in the big moments. Just because he has won a lot of games with the most talent around him of any Bengals qb ever.

    So yes while there are a lot of bad teams who would love to have him and just make the playoffs. Why should we settle for being content with that. Most better teams and fan bases wouldn't be content having a qb who constantly fails in those moments. Me and @Hellbird use to get in arguments all the time over this. Because after the Bengals first few playoff trips in 2011 and 2012, I was happy. While he talked about that being mediocre. We had big disagreements. I said that it was first important to become a consistent winning team, which they did become. After 2013 loss though again in the first round, it was time to take the next step and why I now agree with Hellbird. While it was nice at first being more of a consistent winner. We shouldn't settle for only that. So by having such a do or die stance on Dalton its basically saying we eventually will take the next step with him or not at all. When do you all think is time to move on? Or do you do what the Bengals usually do with players and wait a year or two to long to move on.

    I'm for giving Dalton this one last shot. If he fails again or at least still looks bad in those moments. Then why shouldn't we as a fan base want to try to see if a new qb could take this talent to the next step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengal Maniac View Post
    Let me propose this:

    Would the Broncos take AD now and be in the Championship hunt replacing what they have now? The Texans? The Jags? The Browns? The Rams? The Titans? The Eagles? The Vikings? The Bears? The 49ers?

    I say The Broncos, Texans, Eagles, and Vikings Yes. The Jags, Rams, Titans maybe. The Browns, Bears and 49ers doubtful.

    My point is what rest of the team is he playing with. What I have seen thus far is the maybe group.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrantNKY View Post
    Put AD on the Broncos and they are the two seed and heading into Foxboro with a shot to play in the Super Bowl.
    You put Dalton on the Broncos. You are putting him on a team that has already learned how to win, and as a team has that winning mindset. He wouldnt have to be the leader, he just would need to contribute. The Bengals don't have that mindset. That's why it's even more important to have a qb who is a leader who has that winning type of mindset, kind of an arrogant I am going to make sure we win mindset. Dalton is a come on guys we will be ok, we can do it. While McCarron seems like a guy who says we will do this instead of just we can. Who will hold his teammates accountable and push them no matter the circumstances. Shoot McCarron even pushed his dang center in the championship game with them up 21 for a false start. This team needs that more than a we can do this guys that Dalton is.

    Thats why you won't hear me say Dalton is a bad qb. However it doesn't mean he is what's best for this team. Teams need sometimes a qb to come in and be a leader and establish that type of can't lose mindset. Even Belicheck and the Pats needed that in Brady for them to become what they became because they weren't that with Bledsoe even with Belicheck there. Now that foundation has been laid to where even if Brady doesn't play that whole team has the we still won't lose mindset. The Bengals don't have that, and why it's more important to have a leader at qb who may have a better chance at changing that mindset.

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    I am confident that if the Bengals are going to win a playoff game this year Andy Dalton is the one who gives them the best chance, that's all I want. I've said a million times I don't buy into the whole AJ's a winner, Daltons not a leader, Dalton is scared of the big stage. That's all garbage IMO. I want the guy out there with the better skillset and the better chemistry built up over 6 years of experience playing together. I'm taking Andy Dalton 10/10 times. There is a reason teams aren't knocking down the door to get AJ McCarron. If AJ is as good as you all believe him to be (which is at least on par with Andy Dalton) then he is worth every bit of a first round pick if that's what the Bengals are asking. By all accounts AJ McCarron has had a horrible training camp and basically backed up that assertion by looking a little lost out there Saturday night. Maybe that is O line play, maybe it's just AJ not playing great. Ive never been a proponent of change when that change is a gamble. I'm going to continue to roll with the safe bet which is Andy Dalton and hope that he can bring us a playoff win this year. The one thing I know for certain, if the Bengals win a playoff game this year, Andy Dalton will be the QB (barring injury).

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    Bengals want make the playoffs this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Footballforever74 View Post
    Bengals want make the playoffs this year.
    Sure they want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    You have no idea if it wouldn't be better or not. I admit I can't guarntee McCarron would give us a better chance. However you can't guarntee he wouldn't. So when you all get on here and act like wow people are crazy to think McCarron would do better. People are going to state why. You may disagree but doesn't mean you know for sure either. What I do know is 6 years of data supports Dalton and even his mindset struggle big time under the bright lights and playoffs. Which is not the best ingredient for success for a team looking to win a playoff game.
    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    If they don't, do we say darn it, shucks. If only there would have been a sign to let us know that his mind set is not great in the big moments and we would never get over the top with him.

    There are many qbs in the NFL when paired with top 10 defenses for 5 years, a top 5 wr, a top 5 TE when healthy, and even a top 5 running game one year. Who would have led their teams with all that.

    Dalton undeniably has been surrounded by the best talent in Bengals qb history in terms of both sides of the ball. So my question I will continue to ask, is when is it time to move on? Do you really take a do or die stance and just hope Dalton figures out how to play in the big moments. Just because he has won a lot of games with the most talent around him of any Bengals qb ever.

    So yes while there are a lot of bad teams who would love to have him and just make the playoffs. Why should we settle for being content with that. Most better teams and fan bases wouldn't be content having a qb who constantly fails in those moments. Me and @Hellbird use to get in arguments all the time over this. Because after the Bengals first few playoff trips in 2011 and 2012, I was happy. While he talked about that being mediocre. We had big disagreements. I said that it was first important to become a consistent winning team, which they did become. After 2013 loss though again in the first round, it was time to take the next step and why I now agree with Hellbird. While it was nice at first being more of a consistent winner. We shouldn't settle for only that. So by having such a do or die stance on Dalton its basically saying we eventually will take the next step with him or not at all. When do you all think is time to move on? Or do you do what the Bengals usually do with players and wait a year or two to long to move on.

    I'm for giving Dalton this one last shot. If he fails again or at least still looks bad in those moments. Then why shouldn't we as a fan base want to try to see if a new qb could take this talent to the next step.
    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    You put Dalton on the Broncos. You are putting him on a team that has already learned how to win, and as a team has that winning mindset. He wouldnt have to be the leader, he just would need to contribute. The Bengals don't have that mindset. That's why it's even more important to have a qb who is a leader who has that winning type of mindset, kind of an arrogant I am going to make sure we win mindset. Dalton is a come on guys we will be ok, we can do it. While McCarron seems like a guy who says we will do this instead of just we can. Who will hold his teammates accountable and push them no matter the circumstances. Shoot McCarron even pushed his dang center in the championship game with them up 21 for a false start. This team needs that more than a we can do this guys that Dalton is.

    Thats why you won't hear me say Dalton is a bad qb. However it doesn't mean he is what's best for this team. Teams need sometimes a qb to come in and be a leader and establish that type of can't lose mindset. Even Belicheck and the Pats needed that in Brady for them to become what they became because they weren't that with Bledsoe even with Belicheck there. Now that foundation has been laid to where even if Brady doesn't play that whole team has the we still won't lose mindset. The Bengals don't have that, and why it's more important to have a leader at qb who may have a better chance at changing that mindset.
    Are you on the sidelines and at practices before counselling with Andy or is this evident through the TV screen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantNKY View Post
    5/6 years making the playoffs is not mediocrity.
    And having the longest playoff win drought in the entire league is below mediocrity. There is only one team that gets to hold that title out of 32 which makes Bengals Playoff success over the last 26 years the absolute worst period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantNKY View Post
    So the rest of the game didn't matter that AJ played pretty mediocre? He lobbed one pass up to AJ and all of the sudden he deserves to be the QB? Come on man. You just want something different, not something better.
    Ok, you keep talking about this. So let me ask you something, if AJ played mediocre and you didn't like his playoff performance up to the point he led the team back, then how in the heck can you support Andy Dalton? You see, AJ may have had a medocre game according to you, but that mediocre game was still better than ANY of Daltons Playoff Games!!!!!! Don't you get it? You rip AJ for having a mediocre game and that is why you would rather have Dalton, yet Dalton has never had as good of a playoff game than AJ had, yet you choose the one who performs worse in those situations. That is what drives me crazy about all you Dalton is the answer fans, he has proven not to be the answer and when someone performs better than he has ever performed in a playoff situation you would rather ignore that fact and stick to the worst QB just so you don't have to admit you're wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    And having the longest playoff win drought in the entire league is below mediocrity. There is only one team that gets to hold that title out of 32 which makes Bengals Playoff success over the last 26 years the absolute worst period.
    and Andy has been around for a ~1/5 of that time span move on to your next point. In case you forgot you have to make the playoffs before you can win in the playoffs. Andy has a pretty good track record of making the playoffs. The wins will come as long as they keep making the playoffs. I promise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    Ok, you keep talking about this. So let me ask you something, if AJ played mediocre and you didn't like his playoff performance up to the point he led the team back, then how in the heck can you support Andy Dalton? You see, AJ may have had a medocre game according to you, but that mediocre game was still better than ANY of Daltons Playoff Games!!!!!! Don't you get it? You rip AJ for having a mediocre game and that is why you would rather have Dalton, yet Dalton has never had as good of a playoff game than AJ had, yet you choose the one who performs worse in those situations. That is what drives me crazy about all you Dalton is the answer fans, he has proven not to be the answer and when someone performs better than he has ever performed in a playoff situation you would rather ignore that fact and stick to the worst QB just so you don't have to admit your wrong.
    He has an 80% success rate of making the playoffs. I'll take my chances when we get there with Andy over potentially not getting there with AJ. It's pretty simple.

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    We're NEVER going to agree on this, so there is no point in continuing to argue with someone who is seemingly incapable of reasoning. Until Andy falls flat on his face, he will be the QB. You may want to find a new team to root for. I hear the Browns change QB's often and will probably start at least 3 guys this year. If change is all you desire I think I found the team for you.

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