J Joseph comes out swinging

Originally Posted by 75center

All it took was a millionaire complaining that his employer didn't give him free soap and gatorade.

I don't think it was a complaint so much as an observation that the Bengals, as an organization, do not offer the same type of benefits & perks to their employees as other organizations around the league.

In my mind, Joseph's comments are akin to me taking a new job and realizing how much better my new job is when the new job offers an expense account, better benefits and all the peanut M&M's I can eat...none of which was offered at my old job.

Originally Posted by ColonelCrazy

I don't think it was a complaint so much as an observation that the Bengals, as an organization, do not offer the same type of benefits & perks to their employees as other organizations around the league.

In my mind, Joseph's comments are akin to me taking a new job and realizing how much better my new job is when the new job offers an expense account, better benefits and all the peanut M&M's I can eat...none of which was offered at my old job.

Yeah, and if you were making millions and you talked to a reporter about how at your new job you got peanut M&Ms and other extremely minor perks but at your last job you didn't, and I read the article, I'd think you were an ingrateful, whiney butt too.


This is just another reason why I can't stand pro sports. If pro sports completely went away tomorrow, I wouldn't miss them at all.

Originally Posted by leatherneck

Yeah, and if you were making millions and you talked to a reporter about how at your new job you got peanut M&Ms and other extremely minor perks but at your last job you didn't, and I read the article, I'd think you were an ingrateful, whiney butt too.


This is just another reason why I can't stand pro sports. If pro sports completely went away tomorrow, I wouldn't miss them at all.

Everyone knows Mike Brown is cheap. Joseph's comments go to show just how cheap Mikey truly is.

Again, I didn't take JJ's comments as complaints. From what I recall, he has had mostly positive things to say about the time he spent in NKY / Cincinnati.

Originally Posted by ColonelCrazy

Everyone knows Mike Brown is cheap. Joseph's comments go to show just how cheap Mikey truly is.

Again, I didn't take JJ's comments as complaints. From what I recall, he has had mostly positive things to say about the time he spent in NKY / Cincinnati.

Careful with the gross generalizations. I know Mike Brown and I don't think he is cheap. Is he careful with how he spends money? Sure. So am I. Does he think that his employees getting paid millions of dollars can afford to pay for some of the thinks mentioned by JJ? Yeah. So do I. I've worked with a fair number of pro athletes. Way too many of them were ego centric, self centered, arrogant jerks.

Originally Posted by leatherneck

Careful with the gross generalizations. I know Mike Brown and I don't think he is cheap. Is he careful with how he spends money? Sure. So am I. Does he think that his employees getting paid millions of dollars can afford to pay for some of the thinks mentioned by JJ? Yeah. So do I. I've worked with a fair number of pro athletes. Way too many of them were ego centric, self centered, arrogant jerks.

When compared to other successful pro sports team owners, he is incredibly cheap. He runs his business in an anachronistic fashion that may have worked for his father -- a man who possessed incredible football knowledge, which Mikey clearly does not have -- but does not fly in this day and age.

It's his team, and he's certainly entitled to run the business however he pleases. But expecting consistent on-field success from those methods is unwise. By the same token, Bengals fans are unwise to get their hopes too high, since the Brown family's goals and theirs do not match.

Originally Posted by Jim Schue

When compared to other successful pro sports team owners, he is incredibly cheap. He runs his business in an anachronistic fashion that may have worked for his father -- a man who possessed incredible football knowledge, which Mikey clearly does not have -- but does not fly in this day and age.

It's his team, and he's certainly entitled to run the business however he pleases. But expecting consistent on-field success from those methods is unwise. By the same token, Bengals fans are unwise to get their hopes too high, since the Brown family's goals and theirs do not match.

and you and CC and others are entitled to that opinion. Having worked closely with the man, I don't consider him cheap. Actually in person he is nothing like his public image. Quite a nice guy who actually wants to win badly. If he has a "flaw" holding back the Bengals, it's not being cheap. In my opinion it is because he wants to be known as a "football guy" like his father was. His strong desire to honor his father and be known as an owner that actually understood football caused him to keep too much control over football decisions. I say "caused" because from what I've heard and know, he has over the last couple of years given Marvin much more control over football decisions. Don't know for certain, but I think Marvin said "or else".

And I still stick to my point that JJ came across to me as just another in a long line of whiny butt, grossly overpaid pro athletes that have been excessively coddled since high school. Hell, I wouldn't want a player on my team that left because he had to pay for his own dinky little perks he mentioned.

Leatherneck, the thing I think you are missing is the other teams do what JJ said Brown does not do. The other teams pay scouts and GM's. The other teams build practice bubbles. The other teams have huge medical staffs, physical therapists, trainers and they fly Tony Siragusa into town for a free agent meeting via a private jet or a first class ticket. I don't think JJ was whining at all. I think he really liked his time here but he was shocked at what other teams get for "free". Even in Dallas where Jerry Jones doesn't think he needs a GM do you think they share hotel rooms? He may not be cheap in our eyes as far as regular every day life. All the players and most importantly agents know he's as cheap as they come though

Originally Posted by SSC

Leatherneck, the thing I think you are missing is the other teams do what JJ said Brown does not do. The other teams pay scouts and GM's. The other teams build practice bubbles. The other teams have huge medical staffs, physical therapists, trainers and they fly Tony Siragusa into town for a free agent meeting via a private jet or a first class ticket. I don't think JJ was whining at all. I think he really liked his time here but he was shocked at what other teams get for "free". Even in Dallas where Jerry Jones doesn't think he needs a GM do you think they share hotel rooms? He may not be cheap in our eyes as far as regular every day life. All the players and most importantly agents know he's as cheap as they come though

I understand your point that other teams or even most teams do things the Bengals don't. From what I know (ie, have read on the internet recently) every other team has more scouts and has a GM. Some of them have been very successful, which could indicate a causal link between wins and losses and having more scouts and a GM. Then again, a lot of teams with more scouts and a GM didn't make the playoffs this past season, yet the Bengals did. I'm not even certain what the scouts are supposed to do. Are they scouting opponents or future draft picks? If the former, do we know for certain that the Bengals don't use one or two of their few scouts to do this and supplement their reports with the coaches breaking down film? If the latter, I think I've read that Marvin would rather the coaches do the draft evaluations and since Marvin has taken more control over the last couple of drafts, it appears that the Bengals have drafted better.

As for the big medical staffs, again I'm not convinced that having a big medical staff has resulted in teams with those large staffs having fewer, less severe and "shorter" injuries than the Bengals have experienced. If there are hard facts to support that having large medical staffs results in fewer, less severe and "shorter" injuries than I will rethink my position. Do you recall any Bengal players claiming they received inadequate medical care while playing for the Bengals? I don't but I don't follow the team that closely. Could it be that Mike would rather outsource that service to area physicians than have it on the payroll in order to save money? Unless it can be demonstrated by facts, I'm not convinced that such attempt to save money is hurting the Bengals success.

I'm not going to state that I fully agree with everything Mike Brown does in running the Bengals. I do think he has significantly improved how he does things in the last couple of years. But I also think that some disgruntled fans (probably should state former fans) magnify things way out of proportion. Heck, some of them actually don't want the Bengals to do well, as it plays into their obsession with hating Mike. They want him and the Bengals to fail. So when JJ whines about not being able to take home as many Gatorades as he wants or having to share a room on the road, the disgruntled folks come out of woodwork claiming such has a role in the Bengals problems. I'm just not buying it. You may and that's okay. By the way, there is a blurb in some Bengals blog today where Marvin stated that it was his decision, not Mike's, to limit the number of Gatorades players take home. He may be covering for Mike, but no one other than Marvin or Mike can know that for sure.

Here's what I know about Mike Brown, he has no clue (some say desire) how to put a competitive football team on the field, annually. That's all I really care about.

LN, I know for sure Rich Braham hated the way his injury was handled. Levi Jones and Willie Anderson complained about their treatment I think, but I never talked to them directly about it so I can't say that is a fact. The Antonio Bryant debacle is directly related to the medical staff. There have been other blurbs but I don't recall all of them.

The thing is Brown has seemingly made improvements. But isn't that what he does when the tickets don't sell? Last time he hired Marvin and gave him control. As soon as Marvin got them in a good spot Brown wrestled the control back from Marvin and disaster struck again. They quit selling tickets and Marvin would only return if he had control again. He seemingly turned it around again and Marvin won't re-sign to stay here b/c???

Originally Posted by leatherneck

I understand your point that other teams or even most teams do things the Bengals don't. From what I know (ie, have read on the internet recently) every other team has more scouts and has a GM. Some of them have been very successful, which could indicate a causal link between wins and losses and having more scouts and a GM. Then again, a lot of teams with more scouts and a GM didn't make the playoffs this past season, yet the Bengals did. I'm not even certain what the scouts are supposed to do. Are they scouting opponents or future draft picks? If the former, do we know for certain that the Bengals don't use one or two of their few scouts to do this and supplement their reports with the coaches breaking down film? If the latter, I think I've read that Marvin would rather the coaches do the draft evaluations and since Marvin has taken more control over the last couple of drafts, it appears that the Bengals have drafted better.

As for the big medical staffs, again I'm not convinced that having a big medical staff has resulted in teams with those large staffs having fewer, less severe and "shorter" injuries than the Bengals have experienced. If there are hard facts to support that having large medical staffs results in fewer, less severe and "shorter" injuries than I will rethink my position. Do you recall any Bengal players claiming they received inadequate medical care while playing for the Bengals? I don't but I don't follow the team that closely. Could it be that Mike would rather outsource that service to area physicians than have it on the payroll in order to save money? Unless it can be demonstrated by facts, I'm not convinced that such attempt to save money is hurting the Bengals success.

I'm not going to state that I fully agree with everything Mike Brown does in running the Bengals. I do think he has significantly improved how he does things in the last couple of years. But I also think that some disgruntled fans (probably should state former fans) magnify things way out of proportion. Heck, some of them actually don't want the Bengals to do well, as it plays into their obsession with hating Mike. They want him and the Bengals to fail. So when JJ whines about not being able to take home as many Gatorades as he wants or having to share a room on the road, the disgruntled folks come out of woodwork claiming such has a role in the Bengals problems. I'm just not buying it. You may and that's okay. By the way, there is a blurb in some Bengals blog today where Marvin stated that it was his decision, not Mike's, to limit the number of Gatorades players take home. He may be covering for Mike, but no one other than Marvin or Mike can know that for sure.

Given the Bengals' past couple decades, I think history would support that this past year was an outlier, and hardly a validation of Brown's methods. What is it they say about the proverbial blind hog?