tigerswin

There's just no way to please you is there? I've said numerous times that I respect and support the efforts of those that are involved with the basketball program. I also never said it was right that winning is the easiest way to earn respect/support. Actually I said that I hated to say that. We're talking about high school and junior high kids here. It'd be nice if there was the maturity to see the time and effort that the basketball team gives, and maybe for a few there are. But I guarantee you most of the school will jump on if the team starts winning. That's the way high school is, that's the way sports are, and that's the way life is. Do I need to tell you again that this is not necessarily right, it's just fact? And again, I was not criticizing the coaches, I was saying that may be a problem, I don't know if it is, which I said as well. Several times I've told you that this was just speculation. One one hand you seem to demand support and respect for the basketball program, but on the other you're content to only criticize others rather than offer any answers to questions that have been asked or to offer any solutions of your own. I can't see any reason to belabor this and continue to post, as you've assured me that your next post will only be another delusionary representation of the things I have said and possibly another diatribe on a school and community that you see as bent on keeping the basketball program down.

UmayBright- I never believed that there was no one that cared about Beechwood basketball. If I didn't care myself I would be wasting my time discussing something I have no concern for; but that is beside the point. Do you mean problems I see with the program overall or with this year's team specifically? You named one of each but I guess I can give you both. I've stated that problems I see with the program are a lack of participation from qualified students, whether it is a matter of kids not wanting to play under the current regime or not having a program that the kids want to be a part of- again I'm just speculating that these might be possible causes. Also the Division III issue is a general problem with the program although I think we've discussed that enough. The lack of respect/support from the school and community has been brought up as a general problem as well. I hate to say it but the best way to earn respect or support is to do something worthy of it. Ideally everyone affiliated with Beechwood would support everyone else affiliated with Beechwood just because of the common bond, but that's not the way it is at any school. If you meant problems with this year's team, I mentioned some of those as well. You don't seem to think that the lack of depth or experience is an issue, so we don't have to count those. I also brought up size, both height and strength, which could allow a team to dominate the boards and the post. I also thought that a weak schedule (I know it's not by choice) would give an inaccurate picture of how the season went.

Wildcat- It probably wasn't the best way to say what I meant if that's the way you took it. All that I was trying to say was that there are a lot of rivalries, series, etc. that the smaller school dominates so clearly size can be overcome. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I think we both agree that the success of the football team handicaps the basketball program. I can't ever see Beechwood without a football team like St. Henry and Rose Hill, but if the football program weren't as successful I would bet that more kids would go out for basketball. I don't have the answer to most of your questions and I don't know that anyone does. I don't believe that kids are discouraged from playing basketball by other coaches; maybe by students but I think the true players aren't going to let this affect them to the point of not even playing. I really don't think it's anything other than a general mindset of basketball not being important. I don't know how to change it, obviously I offended some people by tossing out several ideas about what the problem might be. I agree that it's ridiculous for anyone involved to not do everything possible to foster a winning program. In a lot of ways a basketball team just making it to the region would do a lot more for the school than even a football team making it to the regional final or state semi's.

I wasn't real sure on that either. Maybe that there isn't as much injury risk in basketball? I don't know. UmayBright- I never once said that Division III wasn't an issue. I only said that there may be other things at work. If getting out of Division III is the panacea for Beechwood basketball, then so be it. It's a shame that more can't be done and I truly feel for everyone involved in the basketball program because to a large extent they are helpless in this. I think our disagreement is as simple as me believing that there are other problems and you believing that is the only issue. I hope we can see who's right, because I'd love to see Beechwood get out of the Division III format altogether. If the other schools want to continue it, guaranteeing themselves 14 (or 12 without Beechwood) then I don't think anyone would object. From what I understand, and you may know better, but for the last two years the coaching staff has been making an effort to move up to Div. II. I was under the impression that it would require the girls' consent and at this point the girls' program was not looking for the increased competition and therefore opted to remain in Division III. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. As for the negativity, I'm not going to deny that it exists from the student body, maybe even the community. I went to Beechwood, I know how the basketball players were treated. It's not great, but I don't know how much that should affect things. I'm not in a good enough position to comment on the community as a whole. If you believe there is a prejudice coming from the athletic department I can't tell you you're wrong, but I sure hope you aren't right. I know several of the people involved I believe they'd do everything in their power to act fairly and impartially, whether it be working with the coaches to move from Div. III or anything else. They are busy people though.

Do you really believe that there's just a prejudice against the basketball program around the school? Did you read any of my posts? Did I ever say anything about the effort of the kids or coaches? The focus is clearly on what is not happening rather than what is. I've yet to see you offer anything that resembles helpful criticism. I apologize for not making everything sound good and well with Beechwood basketball. If you want to talk baseball and athletic department support you have nothing. I think everyone has agreed that NKAC Division III is a large handicap. Is there any need to keep harping on that?

First of all I didn't say anthing about dominating the region, I said over larger counterparts, implying that there are plenty of small schools that regularily beat larger schools or a larger school in their region. Look at Mayfield, a favorite to win their region this year. Are they not a class A school? How about Paintsville and Rose Hill? It may not be the norm but non-classification has not prevented these teams and others from competing with bigger schools. St. Henry appears to have as good a shot as anyone at the 9th this year, heck, they beat Elder earlier this season. Perhaps you misinterpreted my statement. I'm not going to argue with you on depth. Different people place different values on it. I don't think it hurts to have multiple quality players though. All I meant by the false coating was that on paper it doesn't give an honest representation of the season. 15 wins are nice, but when 12 of those are in DIII it doesn't look so good when you get down into it. You're right, you can make the same case for football, although they've had some very quality wins in the past. By the way, I never brought football into the equation. If you'd like I could bring up baseball. I'm fairly sure that's not classified either, but if you're familiar with Beechwood you'll know it hasn't been an issue. I didn't mean to say definitively that the kids didn't want to play for this coach, I simply don't know if that's the case or not. The program has been improving but there has to be a reason that kids are still not coming out, would you agree? That was just speculation on my part, maybe misplaced. I do admire what the coach has done with tied hands more or less, but I don't know what it's going to take to get the kids that can play to play. Obviously if the program takes off and starts beating some big time teams, kids will come, but which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you guys think it's as simple as a lack of toughness, I'm going to have a hard time disproving you. But this is the same group that works year round for the football program. I am a Beechwood supporter, so please don't take the things I say out of context as jabs at the program or the school. There's a lot of frustration on my part and I'm sure many others about the basketball program particularily. It's hard to watch all the pieces and never see them come together. As I said before, I have a great deal of respect for the kids that do play.

Height is only one part of size. Yes, they're short, but you can get away with that if you have strength- outside of one guy this team does not. Even if they find a way to even up the rebounding battle against a good team, how hard will it be for a team with a good inside game to pound the ball in there and score at will? Just something to think about. I think Beechwood can succeed by pushing the ball and keeping the tempo up, but this is where their depth might hurt them. Not many players can keep up a frenetic pace at a quality level for an entire game. I hope this is not something that's used as an excuse. Basketball is unclassified for everyone, not just Beechwood. There are plenty of Class A-AA teams across the state that reign powerfully over their larger counterparts. No matter how many kids in the school, only five are on the floor. This is not to say that size doesn't matter, but it's certainly not insurmountable. I infer from your post that you're somehow affiliated with the program; as I said, I truly hope that the non-classification is not an excuse used around the program. As for Div. III, this is a significant handicap, and I know that recently there's been some effort to get out of either Division III entirely or some of the mandated games. I think this would be a step in the right direction, but there are other issues at work here, namely getting the all the athletes out for basketball. To build a successful program it's going to take someone that the kids want to play for, or else a program that the kids want to be a part of. For those that do play I have nothing but the utmost respect. They work as hard as anyone else. [/b] I think that's what's hurting Dixie the most right now. Someone mentioned in another post that their guards are killing them with turnovers etc. and Lonergan being gone is probably the source of most of this. The loss of Joe Bramlage sure doesn't help either. They may need someone to step up as a leader on the court and off. Lonergan seemed to take control on the court and I'm not sure that they have anyone doing that consistently now. We'll see though, they do have some guns left.

I'll take a stab. 1. I'd say it was a combination of several things, some that you mention below. Beechwood was no doubt fired up, having not won a game, playing a big district game after already dropping their first one to Lloyd last week. I'm sure Dixie was well aware of Beechwood's record and probably didn't think it would take much of a game to win, not to mention they haven't been clicking most of the season and were just coming off a double digit loss to Winton Woods. 2. I have a hard time seeing this Beechwood team rising too far above where they are now for a couple reasons. They do have some solid players, but no depth, and no size to speak of at all. Many teams will be able to dominate the boards and keep the focus outside where they can shut down the guard play that is really Beechwood's only strength. Getting the football players back may help some, but there are still issues with size and depth, as only about five football players figure to contribute to the varsity- two that didn't even play basketball last year. Beechwood will be fine once they get into the NKAC division III schedule, and no doubt will pick up a decent number of wins playing Villa, Calvary and Heritage twice each, but it just puts a false coating on the season. 3. Dixie has a lot of issues but I still see this team coming together and at least being a consistent ball club- definitely having a chance to be right there in the end. Right now I'd say Dixie is overrated, maybe not the most overrated, but certainly higher than they should be just based on scores. No one else has really impressed either though so it's hard to say. There's just too much talent to not believe that this team won't at least put it together at some point during the season. They're good enough to beat the majority of the ninth on talent alone. 4. I can't argue that. I'd say a secondary reason would be the lack of Dixie's coherence thus far and maybe that Beechwood has the potential to put together some competitive games when there's emotion involved, because they do have several solid players.