BGPfan

I'm not sure what is right or wrong but from what I have seen the top national instructors(guys who work the five star camp and with the mcdonalds all Americans and professional players) and the instructors that my daughter has worked with over the years teach this type of footwork and all these "moves" are based on the same footwork.

My daughters individual coaches have taught her when she gets the ball in a tripple threat position for example step with the right foot, bounce the ball in front of the right foot, push off with the right foot, the left foot will hit the floor and then the right foot. There is a drill for teaching this and from what I have seen most of the top individual instructors teach it. She has never had this called a walk and it is the same footwork as the pro hop or hop off one. The only difference is one is stationary and the other is on the move. Once again I assume it's not a walk because the ball is secured in the air or as she lands. This is taught to get the offensive player past the defender. Is this the bunny hop that you are referring to?

I actually read the rule last night. Obviously the pivot foot is not established when the ball hits the hand off the bounce like the head ref in our area said. This is not mentioned at all. I think he said that to justify always calling a walk if a player hops jumps or spins and ends up on 2 feet I had a friend who joined the ref association that year and they were told none of those moves were legal no matter how they were done It was supposed to be called a walk on the boys side but it was not. Sorry that's another topic The reason I want to figure this out is I want my daughter to get back to using these moves again in college. I see all kinds of oppurtunities to use these moves to score or create for her teammates. The rule I read said the pivot foot is established when the ball is secured and a foot hits the floor with the player coming to a stop. That foot becomes the pivot foot. If both feet hit the floor then either foot can be the pivot foot To me it sounds like it is more about when the ball is secured than when the ball is picked up This would explain why a step out jump shot is not a walk. The ball is secured in the air or when the player lands. The pro hop or hop off one going forward that I described above footwork wise is the same as the step out jump shot. I see this as being legal depending on when the player secures the ball. If a player cups the ball with one hand off the dribble or secures the ball against the body it would be a walk the ball was secured and the pivot foot was established. If the player takes the ball off the bounce with one hand bringing the ball to the other hand in the air then the ball is secured in the air or when the player hits the ground. The first foot that hits is the pivot foot. A jump stop would be illegal if a player takes the ball off the dribble with 2 hands. The ball would be secured when both feet are on the ground thus a pivot foot is established. If the ball is taken off the bounce with one hand bringing the ball to the other hand and both hands are on the ball in the air or when the player lands then it is legal Same goes for the spin moves that these players do on the move that result in both feet being on the floor. it all depends on when the ball is secured. The way the move is taught the ball would hit the other hand and be secured as the pivot foot hits the ground. I had never actually read the rule but now I know why my daughters individual coaches said these were legal moves. In my opinion They were pushing the envelope teaching the kids to cup the ball with one hand off the bounce and taking the ball off the bounce with 2 hands. They mainly go by what's being called on the boys side which based on the games I have watched the refs usually let it go. Now I know why the girl in the eku game had the jump stop called a walk. She took the ball off the bounce with 2 hands. The pro hop or hop off one she took the ball off the ground with one hand and secured the ball with both hands in the air. Atleast I'm going to assume this was his reasoning:)

When I say first foot to hit the ground I mean after the hop spin or jump stop. Hey Clyde I've noticed over the years you respond to these types of questions. Are u a ref?

I really enjoy the discussion and I'm really into basketball especially the detail stuff. My daughter has worked with a lot of great instructors and this is the kind of stuff we talk about . I hope everybody is ok with my long responses.

No.thats not what I'm saying I will try do describe both moves the step out and the hop out. I don't know how to post video. A player is on the move as they are dribbling. Let's say she steps toward the defender with the left foot, she bounces the ball just after the left foot hits the ground, the ball hits her hand as the left foot is on the ground and she is hopping out away from the defender, her right foot hits the ground, her left foot hits the ground and she shoots the ball. This is a step out jump shot She NEVER had this move called a walk. The hop move or pro hop move is the same thing except she hops forward to get by the defender instead of hopping side ways to get away from the defender. The steps, bouncing of the ball ,landing on the feet and shooting the ball are the same for both. They said the hop forward could not be done legally because the left foot that she stepped with would be the pivot foot and when it hit the ground would result in a walk. Going by what we were told the step out jump shot should also be a walk. When we replied back with this move we got no more responses from the head of the refs. Sorry for the long responses. I don't know of any other way to describe it. How would u say a jump stop is legal or illegal? If what we were told is true then almost nobody does the jump stop correctly and it is a walk. Almost everybody has a foot on the ground when the ball hits the hand off the bounce It's all one motion so it's hard to see the foot on the ground when the ball hits the hand but it does. After watching the boys and college men games it sure looks to me as if the pivot foot is the first foot that hits the ground.

I don't see a difference in the step out jumpshot which is rarely called a walk and hopping forward off one foot which is called a walk a lot on the girls side. It is the same steps except one is hopping forward and the other is hopping out. What is your opinion on these 2 moves. Thanks for your response.

Do u agree with what was told to us that the no spin move or hop move that results in both feet being on the ground before the shot is a walk? I see it all the time in boys high school and men's college. We were told no hop or spin move was legal if both feet are on the ground before shooting the ball after hopping or spinning because that means the pivot foot hit the ground which I agree with if the pivot foot is established when the ball hits the hand. Because kids take the ball off the bounce atleast one foot is almost always on the floor when they go into the hop or spin or step out which would result in the pivot foot hitting the floor

I'm glad someone asked this question. My daughter had a horrible time 4 or 5 years ago when she was a sophomore in high school. She was taught the hop moves euro move and spin moves when she was 10 years old and used them a lot She was taught by a guy who worked the 5 star camps and one of the current best personal coaches in the state and Ganon Baker. They said the pivot foot is established when a foot hits the ground. If a player lands on both feet then either foot could be the pivot foot. I even asked a guy who had been a ref for 10 or 12 years. I asked because when I played in the 80s these moves were walks. All through middle school most of the time the refs called them a walk. We were told they would be legal when she played varsity. This was true her 8th and 9th grade years. They were not called walks. She played in Florida and missouri and those refs did not call them walks They were never called walks in aau ball. Her sophomore year they were being called a walk every time Finally I had the high school coach email the head of the refs in our area. He said no hop move and spin move in which a player lands and then shoots can be done legally. Only a spin move or a hop move in which a player goes into the shot is legal. Also he said he did not know what the euro move was but it was probably illegal I saw the email and could not believe he actually stated he did not know the euro move. my daughter played in the 11th region He said the pivot foot is established when the ball hits the players hand. So when that foot hits the ground it is a walk. According to this philosophy even a jump stop is a walk unless a player gets the foot or feet off the ground before the ball hits the hand. Nobody teaches this philosophy when teaching these moves. They are taught to take the ball off the bounce as close to the floor as possible all in one motion When my daughter had the ball on the wing stationary she would step with her right foot bounce the ball as the ball comes off the floor she is pushing off the foot she stepped with and the ball would hit her hand as she pushed off. The stepping foot was on the ground when the ball hit her hand She would land on her left foot with the right foot landing going into a jump shot. This was never called a walk based on this philosophy it should have been a walk. The right foot(stepping foot) would have been the pivot foot and it hit the ground Same goes for the step out jump shot the ball almost always hits the hand while the stepping foot is on the ground but it was not called a walk. But if she was on the move the hop move and spin off 2 were always called a walk. Spin off 1 was legal I went to a couple of boys games to see how they were being called they were not being called walks and they were doing the moves just like my daughter. I talked to a ref who refs high school boys games and he said he only calls a walk on these moves if a player shuffles their feet or drags their feet or comes to a stop or almost to a stop. He considers them legal as long as they are done in one motion. The game has changed since the 80s and I agree with this philosophy I have watched several womens college games over the past 2 years and it is 50/50 to being called a walk. I just saw a game at eku in which a girl did the hop off one which was not called a walk. A few minutes later she did a hop off 2 basically a jump stop and it was called a walk. Everybody in the stands and the opposing team agreed it was not a walk It would have not been called a walk for the men I don't care if they are walks or not but it should be called the same for men and women more importantly there has to be some kind of understand among the refs so there is consistency it was not right for the girl in the eku game to be called for a walk one time and not the other. Either these moves were walks or not. To me it looks as if the refs are guessing to make the call or each ref has a different opinion on these moves. Sorry for the rant.

Who will their point guard be next year?

Who is he? and what camps are the best to go to to get ranked? Thanks.

Does anyone know an address that we could send a card to? Thanks.

This is a little worrisome for them next year. Do they have any players coming up?

Why do you all think crowd attendance is down for girls games?

The Lexington Catholic Lady Knights freshman team is undefeated so far.