futbalfan

I would say that based on the outcome of the KHSAA championship game a case could easily be made that DA in fact had an impact at the Varsity level considering NDA had 2 upper class players playing DA. As to the impact growing slightly larger the next few years it may although it would still be slightly in terms of overall to the region but like this past season i can see it affecting the NKY teams ability to bring home a state title. There was a similar affect on a few Ohio teams as well with multiple upper class players playing DA. Unlike KY, OH's state brackets are setup to always have 1 team come out of SW OH. Will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years and if FCC finally gets their MLS bid the affect on the boys side as with MLS comes the requirement for a boys academy.

I agree 100% with this and in the vast majority of the situations the guidance coming down from State and National instructors is this guidance. That said, it's recognized that there are situations where exceptions should be considered at the discretion of the CR and AR. For example, if the the offensive player in an offside position has a ball played forward where clearly the defensive player who will have a play on the ball just prior to the offensive player being considered "involved in play", is the goal keeper and which the ball played forward is NOT considered a shot on goal then it's acceptable to flag prior to the offensive player "being involved" by the newer interpretation. Of course, this example assumes no additional offensive player not in an offside position at time the ball is played could possibly make a legal play on the ball. The reason for this last statement of course is to ensure that the following situation doesn't occur. The keeper made a play on the ball AND misplayed the ball such that the ball is now playable by a second offensive player trailing offensive player 1 who was not in an offside position at the time the ball. The reason being you do not want to take away the second offensive player's opportunity to make a legal play on the ball even the player 1 could possibly make a play. Of course this guidance really is situational based on age, level of player and other typical decision factors and frankly the level of the referee crew. IMHO, common sense can't be ignored when applying LOTG. I've already seen a couple HS crews attempt to apply the new interpretation this season and have caused unnecessary hard contact between keepers and offensive players and post game discussions with the crew it was stated that "they were waiting to see if the keeper mishandled and the second offensive player could make a play on the ball" or "the keeper could have mishandled the ball causing it to go into the net" or "I viewed the original ball through as a shot on goal and not a pass". Technically, these are all valid legal reasons for not flagging a little early but some would argue for safety reasons and given the level of play it should have been called a little early in order to avoid what became in two incidents i witnessed an unnecessary injury to the keeper. It's always a fine line between enforcement of LOTG and enforcing the spirit of the game and depending on the affect on a team and their supporters of the enforcement or lack of enforcement your view will be inherently be different.

Yes, this is third hand from another coach participating but who spoke to the DHS administrator for the event. That said, I'm sure it's not the whole story but it is the story being passed around. So, take it with that in mind. The gist is that the SK coach wanted to have his team warm-up near the goal line between the corner flag and goal. He was informed by Dixie field administrators prior to his team setting up that the school arranged for all teams to warm up on one of two grass fields (baseball; behind home stands and softball; behind visitor). He ignored the request and began setting up cones with his players nearby at which time a Dixie admin told him his team was not allowed to warm-up there. A "heated" exchange occurred at that point of which specifics of language or exactly what was stated, i was not informed nor asked but at that point, it's claimed the SK coach told his player to "grab their stuff and get on the bus as they were leaving". It was witnessed that players were crying (personal opinion but if true, it's understandable and I would think that it had as much to do with the actions of the "adults" involved as it was about being told by their coach they were not playing). This part is fuzzy but what I was explained was that as the players were boarding or already boarded Dixie admins granted the request for the sake of the players. Again, this is 3rd hand information. So, I'm sure some variation is what happened but the fact that something did happen at all is very saddening and not the type of behavior that needs to occur especially in front of players who often mirror their adult influences whether in the stands or on the side line. I can only hope no abusive or cursive language was used by any parties especially in the presence of the young ladies. Although, i did not attend myself I understand the event was very successful with good competition, great weather and a solid crowd. I'm sure that is what will be remembered by the vast majority involved.

The rule as stated below clearly states who the responsible party for enforcement of the rule is which as stated "It is the obligation of the school desiring to allow the seventh or eighth grade student". Therefore; in this scenario Team B has no obligation to pull any Junior off the field. That said, it is commonplace for the coaches of both teams to discuss the situation prior to the game among themselves to agree if the lower age players will be participating or not and if so, when that will occur. This is more often than not done in conjunction with the pre-game with the CR and in most cases an agreement is made with the CR and AR1 assisting with the agreement via substitution process. I have seen on a few occasions when Team B coach doesn't agree for various reasons and the underclass players are then unable to participate.

I had a discussion regarding the impact of DA selection results on a couple OH teams and wondering the same for NKY teams most specifically on their Varisty rosters. Is there a list of players who made the DA Academy (not pre-academy) from NKY? Just curious on what teams may have been impact given the amount of scare that was made about this earlier in the year.

I didn't raise the whole scholarship issue but your info is dead on and although this is not an issue for women in college at this point I do see it moving in that direction in that the largest amount (> 50%) of athletic scholarship money on average for D1 men's teams is given to non US nationality players. I used to be pretty ok with that as I was more interested in seeing improvement in college play from when I played college ball (70s). However; I guess with age I've become a bit more against it (conservative if i can use that term this day in age) given those scholys (in part) are paid for with tax payer dollars. Sort of goes to your "border adjustment tax" joke. I definitely would like to see more limitations placed on colleges in terms of scholy money awarded non citizens. Not an outright ban but limitations similar to what pro leagues do on # of foreign players. Relevance to this forum is that as previously stated the trend for women is in that direction based on DI - D3 roster stats I saw back in the Fall. It's years away from being an issue for women college players but is going in that direction.

Very interesting thread and many valid points. Some additional ones to consider 1) Comparing status/state of men and women soccer at almost any level but especially at College and Professional levels is an apples and radish type discussion. Both come from the garden but worlds apart for many factors mentioned below as well as others. 2) You may have noticed in the past 5-6 years a reduction in the dominance the US WNT has had. This is in large part due to the increase in the international support for women soccer including professional leagues that didn't exist 10-15 years ago and the addition of man club teams adding womens. For example , the FA Women's Premier League wasn't even founded until 1992. 100 years after men. As these and the women programs at those clubs are still maturing the advantage of attending them to young US women is realistically non-existing/not pragmatic or advantageous. Therefore; for US women looking for top organizations, leagues and competition, the US is still the platform for their development (for now). 3) I would speculate that the WNT leaders have been noticing this trend and the addition of the women's DA program is a recognition of that. It is primarily targeted at young women/girls with goals and abilities to play at the WNT level (WNT or professional). This is the primary purpose although a secondary benefit is the development of players to play in college. 4) One of the great (well deserving) benefits of Prop IX is the increase in funded college women soccer programs. This provides a great opportunity for these young women to continue to play the beautiful game along with fulfilling their academic goals. That said, college is for now a stepping stone to professional womens programs. The reason being, like with the DA program there is no platform for u18-22 outside of college for women in the US. 5) Juxtaposed with that is the men who have club teams (primarily abroad) that take them from u18 to u22 (aka the junior/reserve teams). Although; we do have college players that make it up to our MNT, in there IMHO, is the reason we continue to have the results we have and the USSF investing and promoting the men's DA program is their attempt to address it. However; I firmly believe they realize that as long as the $$$ for men's soccer is overseas so will the talent and the best players we have produced are those that have spent significant time oversees and Jergen got this. 6) The "victim" in all this are the US based men's teams. "How in the world are they victims?" you ask. The victims are the u18-22 players as their platforms have reduce dramatically due to the across the board reduction in men's college soccer. Added to that, unlike with the women's college program, is the fact that a large percentage of college rosters are filled with non-US nationality players. The average D1 men's team will have 30-40% of their game day roster (22-28 players) filled with non US nationality players. The point I'm leading up to is that over time I can see the MNT improve as more US based players go abroad coupled with continued improvements in us based programs (DAs; especially those that are MLS academies) as the money increases with the increase popularity (see FC Cincy as small examples) and the academies take the form of those abroad (see below more on what that means). At the same time, I can see the WNT teams dominance continue to decrease over the same time as the development of women's programs (clubs and PLs) abroad continue to improve and exand. I also, believe that there is a lot of WNT hopes on the success of the DAs which means they are designed, and begin to be executed like an oversees based and some us men's P/MLS club academies. That means players are identified at a young age and provided soccer training year around with academics included within the program (i.e. schooling is at the academy). So, this whole argument about why do DAs force players to give up playing HS ball? It's all about money isn't it? Although I'm sure in part it is, it's certainly not the goal or objective of the USSF for these program and can see them easily moving in the direction of how those oversees academies are designed. I assure you that the requirement of playing year around is just the begining. If you are interested in understanding what other things might one day be involved in playing for a DA I would ready up on how youth academies are run oversees (any EPL, Bundeslegia or La Liga) and you if think "no way" that will happen here be aware it already exist for boys at some MLS academies such as Philadelphia. So, if one of my granddaughters' aspirations were to play professional soccer one day or for one of the top national college programs and they are sitting here at 12/13 I personally would be steering her toward a DA program yet always making it clear stepping out is always an option at anytime without question. If they thoroughly enjoyed the sport and had the skill level but enjoys playing with school friends and aspirations are to one day play in college (any level) I would be recommending her play with a local club which will provide her ample opportunities to play in college and enjoy her 4 years of HS ball. NOTE: As with life, it's always easier to take less responsibility than it is to get more. So, dropping out of a DA academy team it 100 fold easier than trying to get on one. So, if my kids were on the fence I would steer them toward DA sooner rather than later for that simple reason.

I was told by one of the current coaches there last night it would be by Wednesday.

I think "considerable" is a bit of an overstatement.I do see it dropping in terms of quality of play as those players that are lost are the ones that add high level soccer skill and IQ of game but i guess my point is that in an 80 min HS game how much time does the one impact player have on the play and you average that out over a year I don't see you will a "considerable drop-off". Will we see less moments of exception play? of course so. But, those on average are in terms of time are very few. So, I'm basing my counter opinion purely on statistics. The rare case would be a HS that has more than on player lost due to DA and the rest of the team skillet is a huge drop off. For those rare teams I would whole heartily agree will have a major drop off for them but my contention is that those situations will be minimal if the expectations DA has in terms of the geographical area they will be pulling players. Like i said, time will tell and it will be interesting to see final rosters for all 4 DA teams and the schools/leagues that are impacted and then we can revisit what I think is a very interesting and valid discussion for this forum and will grow over time as the DA situation evolves over time.

I think "a lot" is a bit of an overstatement. The reality will likely be minimal impact if you simply look at the numbers. The CDA teams which will roster around 20 players are pulling from the entire tri-state area and somewhat beyond (e.g. Dayton player have registered). I venture to guess you would be looking at 1-3 players max from NKY making a CDA top team and thus not playing HS. You span that over 4-5 teams (depending on birth year and of course the whole 8th grade playing HS debate I see often here) you are again max looking at 12-14 players in total not playing HS soccer. Of course it will affect the HS they attend but across the board impact other than for missing out on seeing quality players at those HS' games I don't see it being a huge impact. Yes, it's sad to see the loss in terms of quality players, will cause responses like "well, if we had player x we would have won state", along with a myriad of other fall outs but I don't think it's doom and gloom. It will be interesting to see how it does play out however. Just watch for this to come up on the boys side as it's coming down the pipe on that side as well in the not too distant future.

"Their coach chose to leave their two leading scorers on the bench to start the game. I assume he was thinking his reserves would roll over the defending state champs and he didn't need them? LOL" As I understand it Haji is still dealing with a knee issue and not close to 100%. Not sure about the other player.

I was interested and here are the Maher Top 20 dated 10/8 (prior to Districts) and current post season status. NOTE: Maher was updated 10/15 Top 20 KY-1 Daviess County Region 13 Winner KY-2 Louisville Collegiate Region 7 Semi-Winner play St X Oct 22 KY-3 Trinity (Louisville) OUT - Lost to Louis Collegiate 2-1 KY-4 St. Xavier Region 7 Semi-Winner Louis Collegiate Oct 22 KY-5 DuPont Manual OUT Region 7 first round loss to St X 3-0 KY-6 Lafayette OUT Region 11 first round loss to Madison Central 2-1 KY-7 Paul Laurence Dunbar Region 11 Semi-winner play Woodford KY-8 Mercer County Region 12 Winner plays Ryle/CCH Winnder KY-9 Covington Catholic Region 9 Semi-Winnder play Ryle Oct 22 KY-10 Ryle Region 9 Semi-Winnder play CCH Oct 22 KY-11 South Warren Region 4 Winner KY-12 John Hardin OUT District 17 final loss to Central Hardin 5-4 KY-13 Highlands OUT Region 9 Semi loss to Ryle 1-0 KY-14 Oldham County OUT Region 8 Final loss to Noth Oldham KY-15 Ballard OUT Region 7 semi loss to Trinity 7-0 KY-16 Madison Central OUT Region 11 Final loss to Woodford County 3-1 KY-17 Lexington Catholic OUT District Final loss to Paul Law Dunbar 1-0 KY-18 North Oldham Region 8 Winner KY-19 Henry Clay OUT Region 11 Final loss to Paul L Dunbar 2-1 KY-20 North Hardin Region 5 Winner

Not exactly. Seeding is based on an online voting on a specific date set by the state. Voiting is performed by the AD of each school. The Seeding is automatic based on the voting. That said, the last coach's poll is usually a close proximity to the final seeding. However; seeding is for every school in a sectional which is beyond the coaches poll. Ohio having more schools of course is broken down another level. It goes Sectional to District to Region to State.

Is football and track the only two sports in KY that have a class based state championship? Being an OH guy, I'm more accustomed to a class based championship in all sports although I have been an official in another state outside OH. I'm curious as to the stats over the past 10 years across the state of KY in terms of # of schools, boy&girl enrollment and for each school the participation count per sport as well as for those sports that are classified the breakdown of classification over those 10 years. The reason I ask is that in another state I'm familiar with that was similar to KY the rationale for non classification outside of football and basketball was based on historical participation numbers. As the state's demographics evolved causing other sports to increase in participation while football actually decreased as well as prop IX, they are migrating to a class based state championship across sports that makes competitive sense. It is being done based on the stats I mentioned above and not a 3-4 but 10-15 year participation trending.

and thus the reason for my original question of dates/times. KY seems to rather confusing. It be much easier, although could cause unbalanced matchups in regions depending on upsets at districts to seed an entire region prior to districts and set the game time/locations and match ups through regional finals. Higher seed is home field. If home field is not available then they have an option to find an alternative or defer to visiting team. If they want to keep reagional semis and finals at same location so be it but a teams schedule (date/location and possibly time) and possible match up should be set at the onset of districts. They then post publicly once seeding is done prior to districts. Again, I'm an OH resident and accustomed to the manner in which they administer theirs. I just find it odd why they make it more complex than it needs to be but ignorant of the soccer issues KHSAA deals with and happy to be enlightened from those here who can do so.