Votto or Doggie?

Page 4 of This came up tonight on Twitter and maybe on 700WLW. Who is the better hitter? Use "better hitter" however you define it. Advertisement 0 0 0... 53 comments | 1582 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #46

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    Would like to know how many teammates have played together for 10 or more years?
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  2. #47
    Voice of Reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpeevh View Post
    Would like to know how many teammates have played together for 10 or more years?
    If we include 10 years or more, that adds another 4 players for a total of 15 current players. Current MLB teammates that have played 10 or more years together:

    Joe Maurer (13 seasons) and Glen Perkins (11) - Minnesota Twins
    Yadier Molina (13) and Adam Wainwright (11) - Cardinals
    Joey Votto (10) and Homer Bailey (10) - Reds

  3. #48
    Jim Schue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoldguy View Post
    Need to also remember the talent back in the 70's was much better than the watered down lineups that the MLB puts on the field nowadays. Back in the 70's the players also weren't treated like china dolls, if there was a game, you played, days off, you got to be kidding me.
    That's not entirely true. In '75 and '76, Rose was the only one to play all 162. The rest were in the 130-140 range. The "Great 8" starting lineup played a grand total of 88 games together in the '75 and '76 WS years. They took days off then, just like they do now.

    You do have a somewhat fair argument perhaps that guys played through pain a lot more, but that's more because of the abysmal methods of training/medical care/rehab 40 years ago. The way Gary Nolan's health was managed by Sparky and the Reds was shameful — they sent him to the dentist to help cure his shoulder pain, and mostly believed his problems were all in his head. Tons more money is invested in salaries nowadays, so teams are more careful about their multimillion dollar investments.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    That's not entirely true. In '75 and '76, Rose was the only one to play all 162. The rest were in the 130-140 range. The "Great 8" starting lineup played a grand total of 88 games together in the '75 and '76 WS years. They took days off then, just like they do now.

    You do have a somewhat fair argument perhaps that guys played through pain a lot more, but that's more because of the abysmal methods of training/medical care/rehab 40 years ago. The way Gary Nolan's health was managed by Sparky and the Reds was shameful — they sent him to the dentist to help cure his shoulder pain, and mostly believed his problems were all in his head. Tons more money is invested in salaries nowadays, so teams are more careful about their multimillion dollar investments.
    And Perez never played all 162 even once in his career. Players always seem to end up much better in our memories than they actually were on paper.

  5. #50
    MJAlltheWay24's Avatar
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    Darn you guys for actually bringing statistics to an argument.
    @Theoldguy already showed you have major bias towards Perez.

    This isn't even close.

  6. #51
    MJAlltheWay24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoldguy View Post
    The question was Who is the better hitter? Use "better hitter" however you define it.

    I define it as someone who wins and will do anything to make the team better! Someone who keeps the clubhouse in order, a leader on and off the field, a player everybody loves to root for be it players or fans, a player who is in The Hall of Fame and who loves the game of baseball and playing the game. As Tony said, Baseball has been very, very good to me and I say, Tony, you have been very, very good for baseball in general and in Cincinnati in particular.

    I still stand by my comment that if Voto were on the Big Red Machine instead of Perez, the Big Red Machine would have never done what they did, as without Tony that team wouldn't have had the heart and soul that he brought to it. Never underestimate the attitude of the clubhouse and what a player like Perez brought to it, during the long road trips and even longer seasons.
    Everything you said that makes Perez a great hitter, has nothing to do with hitting lol.

    Really glad that Perez was a part of the Big Red Machine. Maybe he was the glue guy that helped to keep all those egos in check. Definitely need someone like that. But we aren't talking about that. We are talking about who is the best hitter.

    Our conversation would be better suited for Pete vs. Votto. Perez isn't on Votto's level.

  7. #52
    MJAlltheWay24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    If we include 10 years or more, that adds another 4 players for a total of 15 current players. Current MLB teammates that have played 10 or more years together:

    Joe Maurer (13 seasons) and Glen Perkins (11) - Minnesota Twins
    Yadier Molina (13) and Adam Wainwright (11) - Cardinals
    Joey Votto (10) and Homer Bailey (10) - Reds
    Change that from played to being paid by the same organization lol.

  8. #53
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    Jeez, this argument is funny. It's Votto and you don't need advanced stats to see that. Frankly, I'd take Joe Morgan. But that's not the query. Perez brought many intangibles, and those have been documented by his teammates over the decades. But between the lines, it's Votto.

  9. #54
    Jim Schue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJAlltheWay24 View Post
    Everything you said that makes Perez a great hitter, has nothing to do with hitting lol.

    Really glad that Perez was a part of the Big Red Machine. Maybe he was the glue guy that helped to keep all those egos in check. Definitely need someone like that. But we aren't talking about that. We are talking about who is the best hitter.

    Our conversation would be better suited for Pete vs. Votto. Perez isn't on Votto's level.
    He was most definitely that guy in the part I bolded. You should read "The Machine" when you get a chance, as it talks about this in detail.

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