Trading Johnny Cueto!

Page 11 of Originally Posted by Hellbird Ok, again how often does that work out in the favor of the team trading the all star player? Josh Hamilton was traded, he... 196 comments | 6556 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #151
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    People assume that the Red Sox are the front runners for Cole Hamels. Philly's asking price has been high thus far and nobody has been willing to pay it. If I'm the Reds, I'm using Cole Hamels to my advantage -- whether it's by letting him set the market, or by slightly under-cutting Philly's asking price.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelCrazy View Post
    People assume that the Red Sox are the front runners for Cole Hamels. Philly's asking price has been high thus far and nobody has been willing to pay it. If I'm the Reds, I'm using Cole Hamels to my advantage -- whether it's by letting him set the market, or by slightly under-cutting Philly's asking price.
    I don't think the Red Sox are interested in Hamels as long as Betts or Swihart is part of the package that the Phillies want.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym View Post
    I don't think the Red Sox are interested in Hamels as long as Betts or Swihart is part of the package that the Phillies want.
    That's what I have read, too. I don't know enough about Boston's farm system to name names, but it is my understanding that they have enough young, talented prospects to trade for Cueto or Hamels. As a Reds fan, I don't like the idea of trading Cueto but it's a harsh reality. The Reds won't be able to pay him what he'll demand on the open market, so they might as well get as much talent as possible in return for him.

    Even worse than trading Cueto is the idea that he might be a front-line starter for an NL team -- or even a division rival (i.e. Cubs). My vote is trade him to a big-market AL club now, and let's hope he re-signs in Boston.

  4. #154

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    Same story every year for most teams (worse now with the extra wild card keeping more teams in contention). Options include the following:

    Buy: rent a player or 2, give up some prospects, try to win now
    See What Happens: don't buy or sell and see if current team can get in; Royals showed last year that if you are in the playoffs, you have a chance.
    Sell: trade some players for prospects that can improve your club long term

    Big Win streak before ASG last year moved Reds from potential Sell to See What Happens. Injuries caught up and the crashed post-ASG and got nothing for it.

    If the Reds Sell after ASG (ownership won't like the "optics" of dumping salary & rebuilding before ASG -- despite that there would be little $ impact since all tix are sold), here are my thoughts:

    HOLD (end yr of contract)
    Votto 2023 (not going to get value for that contract & he is elite player)
    Bailey 2020 (no takers w/ injury & contract)
    Bruce 2017 (no value as he is on a steep decline & $ is not crippling)
    Phillips 2017 (if Reds are rebuilding, it's not for 2016 & maybe not 2017; eating salary & paying him to play for someone else doesn't help; would be a Team PR hit to dump him as lots of casual fans like him, his social media & SCTop10 skills [WAR & seam-heads not included])
    Mesoraco 2018 (developing player; current injury is a concern for a C)
    Frazier 2016 then arbitration (developing player)
    Cozart arb (is he truly getting better or is this year a fluke? no need for more than what he gives you while rebuilding; play him until you compete OR he develops OR you need to play his replacement at the major league level)
    Cingrani arb (developing; no $ pressure)
    Hamilton arb (developing; no $ pressure)
    DeSclafani arb (developing; no $ pressure)
    Lorenzen arb (developing; no $ pressure)


    TRADE FOR PROSPECTS
    Cueto 2015 (1% chance of signing him; get best prospects offered)
    Chapman 2015 then arb (will be attractive due to arb; same as Cueto; no need for a closer when rebuilding)
    Leake 2015 (this is the biggest conundrum for me; Reds know who he is [good & bad]; he is making almost $10M this year as last year arb-eligible; pitching very well, but will revert to mean; I think you have to figure out what you are willing to pay him (I'd go up to 3-5 yrs. at avg. $14M/yr.) and offer it; if he signs, great; if not, suspect some team will pay him stupid $ & yrs. in free agency; that cannot be the Reds; trade him & get something)
    Negron arb (throw in if someone takes a shine to him; age suggests he does not fit in w/ total rebuild; keep as inexpensive & versatile if nobody knocks your socks off)

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym View Post
    If the Reds front office were smart they would be trying to trade Cueto, Chapman and Leake now.
    is there any good player you'd
    like them to hang on to? Why not toss Votto in there also. Then we can be a AA caliber team.

  6. #156
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    Have you watched the Astros this year? They are playing great with young, hungry players.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    is there any good player you'd
    like them to hang on to? Why not toss Votto in there also. Then we can be a AA caliber team.

    Do you HONESTLY think that the best course of action for the Reds to do is to hold on to free agents for an extra 2 months so that they might finish 3rd instead of 4th and then watch them sign with someone else anyway and just get a draft pick for them? Do you understand free agency at all? Those players (except Chapman) can, and most likely will, leave the Reds at the end of the season. As for Chapman, you don't need an expensive closer on a team that is retooling. His value would be maximized by trading him with another year on his contract.

    What would you do, ride those 3 to a 4th place finish this year? Then get 2 draft picks for them and finish 4th next season and watch Chapman leave as well? Or you could still finish 4th and end up with 6-8 decent prospects that would be under team control for awhile. It's obvious that you don't know anything about how the business side of baseball works at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym View Post
    Do you HONESTLY think that the best course of action for the Reds to do is to hold on to free agents for an extra 2 months so that they might finish 3rd instead of 4th and then watch them sign with someone else anyway and just get a draft pick for them? Do you understand free agency at all? Those players (except Chapman) can, and most likely will, leave the Reds at the end of the season. As for Chapman, you don't need an expensive closer on a team that is retooling. His value would be maximized by trading him with another year on his contract.

    What would you do, ride those 3 to a 4th place finish this year? Then get 2 draft picks for them and finish 4th next season and watch Chapman leave as well? Or you could still finish 4th and end up with 6-8 decent prospects that would be under team control for awhile. It's obvious that you don't know anything about how the business side of baseball works at all.
    Baseball season is t even 4 weeks old and you all are giving the team away. Actually surprised some of you held out this long lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    Baseball season is t even 4 weeks old and you all are giving the team away. Actually surprised some of you held out this long lol.
    Giving the team away would be letting these guys leave as free agents at then end of the year for nothing but a compensatory pick.

    What everyone is talking about is getting something in return which is not the definition of giving the team away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nkuclubbaseball19 View Post
    Giving the team away would be letting these guys leave as free agents at then end of the year for nothing but a compensatory pick.

    What everyone is talking about is getting something in return which is not the definition of giving the team away.
    What I meant was the season just started and you all are not only ready to give away our best pitcher but our only 3 good pitchers. You all gave up on this season already and it barely started. That is just silly.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    What I meant was the season just started and you all are not only ready to give away our best pitcher but our only 3 good pitchers. You all gave up on this season already and it barely started. That is just silly.
    So in other words, you seriously believe the Reds have a chance to contend this year? Because that's really the sole motivation for hanging on to guys who you would lose one way or another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    So in other words, you seriously believe the Reds have a chance to contend this year? Because that's really the sole motivation for hanging on to guys who you would lose one way or another.
    They have made the playoffs in recent years with basically the same team. Do I think they have a chance of winning it all? Very slim, but I'd rather have a little hope especially at the beginning of the season before I strip the team of every good player they have. There is less a chance at success without those 3 pitchers than there is with them and it doesn't matter what year you are talking about.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    They have made the playoffs in recent years with basically the same team. Do I think they have a chance of winning it all? Very slim, but I'd rather have a little hope especially at the beginning of the season before I strip the team of every good player they have. There is less a chance at success without those 3 pitchers than there is with them and it doesn't matter what year you are talking about.
    This is not the same team as those teams, but I see what you mean. I try to be optimistic, and the Reds aren't going to make any wholesale moves until after the ASG anyway, so maybe they do catch fire. But without Homer and Mesoraco, their chances of winning a WS would seem to be about 1 percent at best, and I wouldn't put their actual chances to make playoffs at much more than that.

    I guess I'm willing to pass on that 1-3 percent to do what I can to try and gather the most bargaining pieces possible for use when my team is better situated to make a credible run. Right now, that's 2 years away if things go well.

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    Article on what the Reds might expect in return for Cueto and/or Chapman.

    What could the Cincinnati Reds get for Johnny Cueto and Aroldis Chapman? | FOX Sports

  15. #165
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    Sounds like the Dodgers might be a suitor since Ryu is out for the year.

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