Question for Old-Timer Reds Fans

  1. #1
    MJAlltheWay24's Avatar
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    Question for Old-Timer Reds Fans

    Been listening to Jim Day's podcast (which I highly recommend) lately and they consistently say that David Concepcion should be in the HOF. They say he "recreated the position". Do you agree?

    Do you agree?
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    Mack The Knife's Avatar
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    He definitely should be in the Hall Of Fame. He was a better player than Ozzie Smith, offensively and defensively. And a clutch hitter.

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    Jumper_Dad's Avatar
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    He did redefine the position defensively. He was the first one to intentionally throw one-hop throws to first when playing on turf, gave Perez and others a consistent ball that didn't have to be dug out. Of course, he only did this when he had to rush his throw.

    HOF is a touchy matter, I love him and I'm not sure. I'd have no problem if he went in, based on watching him play. Just looking at numbers it is harder to make a case. That said, he was the best SS in the game for a decade or more.

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    LRCW's Avatar
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    Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    He did redefine the position defensively. He was the first one to intentionally throw one-hop throws to first when playing on turf, gave Perez and others a consistent ball that didn't have to be dug out. Of course, he only did this when he had to rush his throw.

    HOF is a touchy matter, I love him and I'm not sure. I'd have no problem if he went in, based on watching him play. Just looking at numbers it is harder to make a case. That said, he was the best SS in the game for a decade or more.
    He was the best defensively at his position in the 70’s. Offensively he produced well at the bottom of the order for the era.

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    sweet16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack The Knife View Post
    He definitely should be in the Hall Of Fame. He was a better player than Ozzie Smith, offensively and defensively. And a clutch hitter.
    He was better than Ozzie offensively but I would not say defensively.

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    Jumper_Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet16 View Post
    He was better than Ozzie offensively but I would not say defensively.
    Ozzy was flashier and is an all time great, but in his prime Davey took a back seat to no one defensively. Not saying he was better, but I am not saying he wasn't either.

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    MJAlltheWay24's Avatar
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    Seems like the consensus is yes, so far.

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    Voice of Reason's Avatar
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    Barry Larkin is in the Hall and I am sure younger Reds fans would say he definitely should be there. Here are some stats comparing Larkin and Concepcion:

    ...................Larkin......Concepcion
    Hits..............2,340 ...... 2,326
    Gold Gloves...... 3 ........... 5
    All Star Games..12 .......... 9
    RBI ................960.........950
    Steals ............379 .........321

    Finally, if we look at the decade of the 70's there is zero doubt Concepcion was the best shortstop of that decade. He played in 4 World Series, winning 2, and 5 League Championship Series. He also won 2 Silver Slugger awards and was the MVP of an All Star game.

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    The Scribe's Avatar
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    I think the veterans committee will put him in at some point. They put Harold Baines and Lee Smith in this year and they were really good players at best. It's not the Hall of Really Good though.

    I've always thought Ozzie Smith being the Hall of Fame was a joke. Flashy plays but five times was in the top five for most errors. .262 career hitter, etc.

    If Luis Aparicio and Pee Wee Reese are in the HOF, I have no problem with Concepcion getting in. That's the one position on the HOF ballot where there has never been consistency based on stats. Reese got in based on rings and little else.

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    mcpapa's Avatar
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    My college roommate was a Mets fan during the Big Red Machine. He used to tell me that he thought Concepcion’s first name was Elmer, because he saw “E - Concepcion” in the box score so often.

    That being said, I have no issues with his inclusion in the HOF. Short is the one position where offense takes a back seat to glove work when considering the Hall.

    And growing up an Orioles fan at the time, I still think that Mark Belanger was the best defensive shortstop of his day; But the guy couldn’t hit his weight.

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    bulldog77's Avatar
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    Concepcion actually suffers from having played with so many incredible teammates. He was and is overshadowed by other HOF's with greater stats and much more "sparkle" to their resumes. The truth however is that he was one of the two or three best at his position in that era. He belongs in the Hall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog77 View Post
    Concepcion actually suffers from having played with so many incredible teammates. He was and is overshadowed by other HOF's with greater stats and much more "sparkle" to their resumes. The truth however is that he was one of the two or three best at his position in that era. He belongs in the Hall.
    Agree. And if was able to do flips to his position, he would already be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcpapa View Post
    My college roommate was a Mets fan during the Big Red Machine. He used to tell me that he thought Concepcion’s first name was Elmer, because he saw “E - Concepcion” in the box score so often.

    That being said, I have no issues with his inclusion in the HOF. Short is the one position where offense takes a back seat to glove work when considering the Hall.

    And growing up an Orioles fan at the time, I still think that Mark Belanger was the best defensive shortstop of his day; But the guy couldn’t hit his weight.
    Your college roommate stole that line from the who is arguably the best shortstop of the 70's....Larry Bowa....that nickname stuck and many of Concepcion's close friends still call him Elmer. Bowa led the league in fielding 5 of the 10 years in the decade (Concepcion only led the league in fielding once). Bowa only had one season with a fielding percentage below .975...Concepcion only had 2 seasons where his was ABOVE .975. Bowa also turned more double plays, and had 500 more assists. Aside from Gold Gloves (which are notoriously known as a popularity contest), Bowa's fielding stats are simply better than Davey's. On the all time fielding list, Bowa is #14 and Concepcion is #92. Davey is overrated as a fielder if you look at the numbers. And for those who say Concepcion was a better hitter, while Davey had more homers, Bowa had twice as many triples, and had 300 more career hits. And one last thing....Bowa showed up on 4 MVP ballots, compared to two for Concepcion.

    Almost all the HOF support for Davey comes from this region. He was a great player, and I enjoyed watching him play. But, even though I'm a big Phillies fan, I don't think Bowa belongs in the HOF, and if he doesn't, then Concepcion certainly doesn't.

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    To add on....Career wise Concepcion did have more hits than Bowa. But the decade of the 70’s was not filled with good shortstops. If you look at all the various all decade teams, there is no consensus as to the best of the decade...Campaneris, Concepcion, Toby Harrah, and Bowa are just a few of the names that are named as the top dog.

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