Man Ram and Ortiz on "The List"

**formerkywrestler** · Jul 30, 09, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by HammerTime

Um Ok?

Nevermind.

**Original Rookie** · Jul 30, 09, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by HammerTime

Coming fromt he Red Sox fan who got their rings on roids. Classic.

**woodsrider** · Jul 30, 09, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

Of course, we know Man Ram's one but Big Papi too? I'm sure Red Sox fan doesn't care............

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sp.../31doping.html

Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, the sluggers who propelled the Boston Red Sox to end an 86-year World Series championship drought and to capture another title three years later, were among the roughly 100 Major League Baseball players to test positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the results.

Oh, and so much for the..."What did it get Bonds and McGwire?" argument. It got Man Ram, Ortiz and Beantown a couple of titles.

I might concede the 2004 season but 2007 was well after baseball instituted their testing policy. Manny only hit 20 HR in 2007. Ortiz had a monster year but I would guess he had been tested multiple times.

**Crash Davis** · Jul 30, 09, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by woodsrider

I might concede the 2004 season but 2007 was well after baseball instituted their testing policy. Manny only hit 20 HR in 2007. Ortiz had a monster year but I would guess he had been tested multiple times.

Unfortunately a few have proven that testing has not stopped them from using.

**westsider** · Jul 30, 09, 01:49 PM

Why are the guys that used steroids or PEDs or whatever any different than the guys that use greenies in the 60s or pitchers that have scuffed baseballs?

They all have one thing in common ... they were players looking for an edge. Science and technology is such today that the process has evolved into what it is now.

**formerkywrestler** · Jul 30, 09, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by westsider

Why are the guys that used steroids or PEDs or whatever any different than the guys that use greenies in the 60s or pitchers that have scuffed baseballs?

They all have one thing in common ... they were players looking for an edge. Science and technology is such today that the process has evolved into what it is now.

Excellent point. And they aren't any different.

**stick1** · Jul 30, 09, 02:00 PM

I called this around the start of the season and got push back that he wasn't built like a guy juicing. Nobody suprises me and honestly I think you have to be pretty nieve at this point to think otherwise. Glad the sox cheated their way to a title :-)!

**woodsrider** · Jul 30, 09, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by westsider

Why are the guys that used steroids or PEDs or whatever any different than the guys that use greenies in the 60s or pitchers that have scuffed baseballs?

They all have one thing in common ... they were players looking for an edge. Science and technology is such today that the process has evolved into what it is now.

If you can get a good answer to that you will have dons better then me. The best I could get was steriods guys were/are breaking precious records.

**Crash Davis** · Jul 30, 09, 02:14 PM

You're comparing scuffing a baseball and steroids and expect to get intelligent conversation? Good luck with that.

Greenies only helped focus. While not condoning them, the did not increase muscle mass, improve recovery time, bat speed, reaction times....etc. Greenies can hardly be compared to PED's.

Someone made the point about technology. You're right, which is why greenies aren't nearly as big of a deal as PED's.

**KyTiger89** · Jul 30, 09, 02:30 PM

This is such a sad day for Boston fans. As a Red Sox fan myself, I am very upset about this, and I hope that Papi mans up and apologizes to everyone. Time to replace him also, I dont want a cheater on my team.

**KyTiger89** · Jul 30, 09, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by formerkywrestler

Nothing from Simmons yet. But here is a twitter from Jack-O:

Simmons said it was the saddest blackberry news he's ever received

**SSC** · Jul 30, 09, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by woodsrider

I might concede the 2004 season but 2007 was well after baseball instituted their testing policy. Manny only hit 20 HR in 2007. Ortiz had a monster year but I would guess he had been tested multiple times.

Did they test for HGH then?

I honeslty con't care about this very much, but lets be real here. First off those two guys are far from the only guys who were using PED's in 2003. So they were the best of the cheaters. They still were the best. Secondly to assume players haven't moved on and found another way around the testing is crazy. Manny was even caught. It looks like Ortiz isn't on them anymore based on his numbers, but I'd guess a lot of players are still on something.

**UKMustangFan** · Jul 30, 09, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by HammerTime

Coming fromt he Red Sox fan who got their rings on roids. Classic.

Originally Posted by Original Rookie

Yeah, because I've been so critical of guys like Bonds.....

**sweet16** · Jul 30, 09, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by NEERFAN

I'm numb to it all, just release all 100 so we can move on.

Originally Posted by NEERFAN

I'm numb to it all, just release all 100 so we can move on.

Originally Posted by NEERFAN

I'm numb to it all, just release all 100 so we can move on.

Just wondering if you are numb to it all?

**westsider** · Jul 30, 09, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

You're comparing scuffing a baseball and steroids and expect to get intelligent conversation? Good luck with that.

Actually, yes ... so far, so good.

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

Greenies only helped focus. While not condoning them, the did not increase muscle mass, improve recovery time, bat speed, reaction times....etc. Greenies can hardly be compared to PED's.

At the time, greenies were also seen as a way to get players "up" for each game in the grind of a long season.

They were using the methods that science made available to them at the time.

**Crash Davis** · Jul 30, 09, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by westsider

Actually, yes ... so far, so good.

I've yet to read anything close to intelligent since that post.

Originally Posted by westsider

At the time, greenies were also seen as a way to get players "up" for each game in the grind of a long season.

They were using the methods that science made available to them at the time.

Getting "up" and adding muscle mass, improving recovery time.....etc. (again) is not comparable. At least in my opinion.

**inthesuite** · Jul 30, 09, 03:49 PM

Wow, are any of the big sluggers I have seen in the past 5 to 8 years legit, I would have never thought of Big Papi, this is really damaging baseballs integrity.

**bigbluefan02** · Jul 30, 09, 04:08 PM

This is getting to the point that it is stupid. Why can't the media just release the rest of the names so that life can go on and we can get over it. I'm a huge fan of baseball and these players have hurt the sport greatly, but there are still players in MLB that are good guys. Just release the rest of the names and lets go on. For pete's sake. And one more thing, "Put Pete Rose in the HOF!!" (No I am not a Reds fan at all).

**Wireman** · Jul 30, 09, 04:22 PM

Put Manny in the Hall of Fame and move on

**mcpapa** · Jul 30, 09, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by westsider

Why are the guys that used steroids or PEDs or whatever any different than the guys that use greenies in the 60s or pitchers that have scuffed baseballs?

They all have one thing in common ... they were players looking for an edge. Science and technology is such today that the process has evolved into what it is now.

Wait and see. 30 years from now it will be elbow and shoulder implants. Instead of drug testing it will be random x-rays.