1. #1
    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Default All A tournament

    I'm sure I'll get drilled on this one, but why does this tournament exist? Why are the A schools segmented out with a special tournament?
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  2. #2
    Guide lawildcat's Avatar
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    It exists because all of the A schools got together and put a tournament together. I think it started about 15 years ago but I am not at all an expert. You need Mustang for the history.

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    It's a great thing and the other classes could do the same.

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    Actually it started as a northern ky tournament and grew from there.

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    Stan Steidel, from Dayton, was one of the organizers of the very first All A Classic. According to his bio from the KHSAA HOF, it's more than just basketball tourney. There are other events and competitions that coincide with it. (not sure if they still do or not). http://khsaa.org/httpdocs/hallfame/I...el,%20Stan.pdf
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    TAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    It's a great thing and the other classes could do the same.
    They do. It's called the KHSAA state tournament. All A consists of about half of all schools.you have to be in the smallest 200 or so schools in order to be invited.

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    The groundwork for the Kentucky All-A-Classic was formed in 1980 through the efforts of coaches like Stan Steidel of Dayton, Father Ed Heile of Covington Latin, Bill Frey of Covington Holy Cross and others. The inception of a small school basketball tournament began in January of 1980. The first Class "A" Tournament was held at Holy Cross High School in Latonia with eight teams. In 1981 it moved to Bellevue with ten teams, all from Northern Kentucky.

    The 1982 to 1989 Classic went statewide by inviting six Class A schools from around the state to compete with the ten northern Kentucky schools. In 1990 the All "A" Classic experienced a dream come true: A statewide championship tournament with sixteen boys' regional tournament winners competing in Lexington in February. Then in 1991 the All "A" Classic expanded to include the field of 16 boys' regional winners and included four girls' sectional winners competing in the statewide finals. In 1992, the statewide tournament again expanded to include eight girls' teams and in 1993 included the full complement of 16 boys and 16 girls’ teams.

    I believe it consist of the 125 smallest schools in the state.
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    The All A is an awesome opportunity and experience for kids that would otherwise never have a chance to play in a big arena venue in a state championship format. I for one, am very thankful for it.
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    The All A is a great tournament for smaller schools that are playing with kids who have come through their system. For those that go out and bring in what they need, it's a joke.
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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleSevens View Post
    The All A is an awesome opportunity and experience for kids that would otherwise never have a chance to play in a big arena venue in a state championship format. I for one, am very thankful for it.
    I guess my question there is, aren't the ones that make it out of the A region usually contenders in their region too. Brossart, Walton, NCC, etc. So don't the A teams that typically get beat up still get beat up? Not taking anything away from the tournament. It has no bearing on me whatsoever, really just curious. With teams like the ones above, is it still an opportunity for the other schools or just the ones that already have great programs and compete in regionals anyway.
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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    I guess my question there is, aren't the ones that make it out of the A region usually contenders in their region too. Brossart, Walton, NCC, etc. So don't the A teams that typically get beat up still get beat up? Not taking anything away from the tournament. It has no bearing on me whatsoever, really just curious. With teams like the ones above, is it still an opportunity for the other schools or just the ones that already have great programs and compete in regionals anyway.
    Then I guess another follow-up question...what about the kids that go to schools that have 201+ students. What's their opportunity to play in an event like this. There are plenty of schools that a lot of these A programs beat to death! I guess I'm a believer in that KY is the way it is and we have 1 state champion at the end of the year or we go to classes. If you segment out one group of schools and say it's a great opportunity for them, why are there not opportunities for any school that doesn't win? I know the argument is that these 1A schools are handicapped by their enrollement. But so are a lot of schools...vs. the much larger schools. You still have a TON of smaller schools trying to compete against schools up to 6 or 7 times bigger. Take a 2A school with 201 kids and play Scott County or Trinity or any of the big Lousiville private schools.

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    I don't get the All A either. Imagine if someone started a tournament limited to schools with 500 students or more. They would get ripped every day, saying it's not fair to the small schools. Yet, the All A gets a pass in excluding the big schools. The All A is nothing more than a really long tournament. If you win it, great, you won a tournament. But more often than not, the champ is paraded around like they are "state champs", and often refered to as "state champs" as in "we won the All A State Championship" which is really misleading. Just say you won the All A Tournament. Why the KHSAA doesn't have classes in some sports is beyond me. Smoky back rooms filled with back-slapping good 'ole boys making deals with suitcases full of money is my guess why we don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    I guess my question there is, aren't the ones that make it out of the A region usually contenders in their region too. Brossart, Walton, NCC, etc. So don't the A teams that typically get beat up still get beat up? Not taking anything away from the tournament. It has no bearing on me whatsoever, really just curious. With teams like the ones above, is it still an opportunity for the other schools or just the ones that already have great programs and compete in regionals anyway.
    The All A is a great tournament IMO. It gives the smaller schools a chance to compete in a regional and state tournament that they might not otherwise get a chance to do. The teams you mention, Brossart, Walton, NCC, while they are typically competitive year in and year out within their district and regional tournaments, many other small schools are not, and don't even make it to their regional tournament. This gives all the smaller schools an opportunity to play and compete in a regional tournament with the possibility of playing in a state tournament. How often have these three teams you mention actually won their over all regional tournament and got a chance to go to the Sweet 16 state tournament? I don't know, just asking the question.

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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    I think it's a great tournament and fun. Other classes should do the same if they like. It's becoming pretty cool.
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    There is nothing stopping the other schools from forming their own tournament. If you want a tourney of schools with over 500 enrollment or whatever, have at it! I think it's a great tournament myself. Hoping for an all Campbell County final for boys and girls on Sunday! Go Breds! Go Mustangs!
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  16. #16
    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porky View Post
    The All A is a great tournament IMO. It gives the smaller schools a chance to compete in a regional and state tournament that they might not otherwise get a chance to do. The teams you mention, Brossart, Walton, NCC, while they are typically competitive year in and year out within their district and regional tournaments, many other small schools are not, and don't even make it to their regional tournament. This gives all the smaller schools an opportunity to play and compete in a regional tournament with the possibility of playing in a state tournament. How often have these three teams you mention actually won their over all regional tournament and got a chance to go to the Sweet 16 state tournament? I don't know, just asking the question.
    Walton just won their region, I think the last two years. I think Brossart has had just as good of a chance as anyone in their region over the last couple years and many feel NCC is top 4 in their region this year. You can ask when the last time they won the region, but you can also ask that of several of the larger schools. There is only one region winner every year. When was the last time ND, HHS, NCC, Ryle, Conner, Dixie, Beechwood, Holmes, Holy Cross won the region? Maybe they have, but I'm just making a point that all schools are in the same boat.

    So if it's fair to segment them out, shouldn't it be fair for the larger schools to NOT have to play some of those smaller schools in the regular season, in districts and regions? In the districts that seed, you are forced to play some of those small schools. Take a look at some of those scores. Brossart beat Silver Grove by 60, but is forced to play them. Shouldn't Brossart and Camp Co be able to put a better quality opponent on their schedule to make them better, rather than playing SG twice a year or whatever they play. All the regions have similar scenarios.

    Now take the 36th district. They don't seed. Now you you have 3 small schools voting on the fate of 5. Newport, Dayton, Bellevue, NCC and HHS. If you take a vote on whether to seed the district or not, how do you think that vote is going to come out? Don't seed...like it's been for over 35 years. So now you have a chance that one of the best teams in the region (NCC or HHS) could be knocked out of the region by a team that will probably lose their first game by a running clock. Where's their opportunity.

    I'm just saying that the argument that the All A provides an opportunity for the small schools doesn't really apply because the ones that should be getting the opportunity are still getting beat up by the ones that do have fair opportunities!

    Walton won the all A and their region!
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    It is a great tournament and a great opportunity for many girls to compete on a stage that they may never get a chance to. Its all about the experience... and allowing small schools to get that experience and the kids at those schools to gain that experience, which is positive. Many of the All A schools are so small that they may have 12- 13 girls in the program total, competing against teams who have hundreds of kids to choose from. I think they should break it down even further like football does and have seperate tourneys. I'm more curious about why they do it in football and not all sports.
    and the private schools should have their own tournaments! Lol

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    TAC
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    The All A is a wonderful event for the small schools. For those that don't like the idea of separating the small schools for an unsanctioned state champion, what are your thoughts on the watered down 6 classes for football? Do away with all of those and just have 1 state champ?

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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach A View Post
    It is a great tournament and a great opportunity for many girls to compete on a stage that they may never get a chance to. Its all about the experience... and allowing small schools to get that experience and the kids at those schools to gain that experience, which is positive. Many of the All A schools are so small that they may have 12- 13 girls in the program total, competing against teams who have hundreds of kids to choose from. I think they should break it down even further like football does and have seperate tourneys. I'm more curious about why they do it in football and not all sports.
    and the private schools should have their own tournaments! Lol
    That's kinda my point. The schools that have the 12-13 kids...I assume they aren't making it to this stage anyway, right? I did go to the website and looked at the schools. There are plenty in the various regions that I've never heard of. However, it looks like the ones coming to the state are either teams that have just as good as a chance as some of the other schools in their region or come from very weak regions anyway. Just not sure how the schools that truely deserve an opportunity are really getting an opportunitiy. Heck, I'd love for my daughter to "get an opportunity" to play in the same setting, but there is a very good chance that she plays all 4 years and never gets there. Should I go start a tournament that allows her to play in a championship event? She works as hard as anyone. She "deserves" an opportunity! And if you have teams in the state that can compete year in and year out with their region, then your going to have the schools from the weak regions going to the state and getting pounded. Is that a good experience? Why, because they got to get embarrased in a big arena?

    I was really just playing devil's advocate when I started, but am starting to believe myself now!

    All in all, it's a good thing that they are playing games and it maybe gets a few teams a chance to compete (up until a certain point) that wouldn't have been able to compete. But I really don't get all the hype is gets. Does anyone outside of the participant school care who wins. Do others look at it as "yes, you are the best of the small schools, but what does that really mean?" Just asking for opinions. Not trying to bash. I can't believe I'm the only one that has questioned it before.

  20. #20
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    I think you've been hanging with Lawnboy too much and now you're starting to stir up trouble too!
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