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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Default State championships

    I think this would be a great project and debate for the BGP historians and analytical guys. On another post, heck, on another sport thread...the question came up of how many state championships would HHS not be a part of if there were no classes in football all these years. The insinuation was that they would have very few and I'm guessing they were thinking that it would be dominated by the higher classes and have brought HHS back to reality.

    My argument was that you have to go way back and look at all the championships, not just the recent ones. I agreed that it would absolutely have knocked the numbers down considerably, but it would be the same for every school, not just HHS. And I stated there were many years over history that HHS was considered the top team in the state, regardless of class.

    So let's talk about it. Not just HHS, but all schools with multiple championships. If there were no classes, how many state championships would HHS have? Trinity? St X? BG? Cov Cath, NCC, Boyle, Mayfield, Simon Kenton, whoops, scratch that last one. You get my drift! I'm sure there are others.

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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    I think this would be a great project and debate for the BGP historians and analytical guys. On another post, heck, on another sport thread...the question came up of how many state championships would HHS not be a part of if there were no classes in football all these years.
    I thought about it, and the answer I came up with is "Who Cares?"









    j/k kinda

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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbird View Post
    I thought about it, and the answer I came up with is "Who Cares?"
    Just thought is was a nice topic for the offseason football only guys. I'm not interested in debating it, but thought I'd throw these guys a cookie and sit and listen. I know, you think that would be hard to do for me not to stay out of it, but I'm not real sure about this one. It will really educate me if some of the guys on here really look into it. There are some very bright football guys on here...and no, not just with an HHS twist! Across the state!

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    Premium Member ThrillVille Cardinal51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    I think this would be a great project and debate for the BGP historians and analytical guys. On another post, heck, on another sport thread...the question came up of how many state championships would HHS not be a part of if there were no classes in football all these years. The insinuation was that they would have very few and I'm guessing they were thinking that it would be dominated by the higher classes and have brought HHS back to reality.

    My argument was that you have to go way back and look at all the championships, not just the recent ones. I agreed that it would absolutely have knocked the numbers down considerably, but it would be the same for every school, not just HHS. And I stated there were many years over history that HHS was considered the top team in the state, regardless of class.

    So let's talk about it. Not just HHS, but all schools with multiple championships. If there were no classes, how many state championships would HHS have? Trinity? St X? BG? Cov Cath, NCC, Boyle, Mayfield, Simon Kenton, whoops, scratch that last one. You get my drift! I'm sure there are others.
    Impossible to say, but I like to think that CovCath would have atleast a couple. I don't think a school like NewCath would have sniffed one. That's not a knock on the program, it's just a reality.

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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    Just thought is was a nice topic for the offseason football only guys. I'm not interested in debating it, but thought I'd throw these guys a cookie and sit and listen. I know, you think that would be hard to do for me not to stay out of it, but I'm not real sure about this one. It will really educate me if some of the guys on here really look into it. There are some very bright football guys on here...and no, not just with an HHS twist! Across the state!
    It's all good, just thought I'd stir the pot lol.

    Well I'd say this past season would be 1 less championship for HHS because they would of lost to one of the following in the playoffs
    Trinity
    Bowling green
    Cooper
    Conner

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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrillVille Cardinal51 View Post
    Impossible to say, but I like to think that CovCath would have atleast a couple. I don't think a school like NewCath would have sniffed one. That's not a knock on the program, it's just a reality.
    I can agree with that. I'd also add that even though I'm a Beechwood alum and they have a lot of state championships, if there were no classes they would be sitting with 0 also.

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    Interesting to consider, i would imagine there would be 3 less in the old trophy case. Considering Trinity has pretty well dominated the previous 3 big school state titles. Also, considering they have had their way with HHS in those 3 years preseason scrimmages. Would really like to see HHS and Trinity play in a regular season game.
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    Premium Member gchs_uk9's Avatar
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    I guess the best way to look at this would be to take each year's champions and compare them to one another. You could probably eliminate all (or nearly all) of the previous Class A champions. My guess is that it would almost always be the 4A champions from Louisville, with Highlands being able to win some, and them some occasional outliers. This seems like an interesting project - I might have to take a look.
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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gchs_uk9 View Post
    I guess the best way to look at this would be to take each year's champions and compare them to one another. You could probably eliminate all (or nearly all) of the previous Class A champions. My guess is that it would almost always be the 4A champions from Louisville, with Highlands being able to win some, and them some occasional outliers. This seems like an interesting project - I might have to take a look.
    The good thing is, no one can really challenge your outcome with facts!!! Just thought it would pass some time for the football guys!

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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdr1984 View Post
    Interesting to consider, i would imagine there would be 3 less in the old trophy case. Considering Trinity has pretty well dominated the previous 3 big school state titles. Also, considering they have had their way with HHS in those 3 years preseason scrimmages. Would really like to see HHS and Trinity play in a regular season game.
    no doubt 3 less due to Trinity recently. They've been on another level recently, but have been beatable in past. I think that's what some forget because of their recent success. There is a good possibility that not just HHS, but others could have got them in the past too. Especially if you go way back.

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    Premium Member RCC9's Avatar
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    Where's PP92??

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    Premium Member Oldbird's Avatar
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    The low hanging fruit on this one for a Highlands fan are the ones where we either beat the bigger school state champ or where we beat a school that beat the big school state champ. So I would think we would have a good shot in the following years:

    2009: Highlands beat Cincy X and Cincy X beat 6A state champ Lou. St. X.
    1999: HHS crushed Cov. Cath. Lou. St. X lost to Cov. Cath
    1998: HHS beat eventual 4A state champ Male.
    1982: HHS beat eventual 4A state champ Christian County

    There are other years I think we would have done very well 2008, 2000, 1981, but these were the ones above were the first ones I thought of. I can't speak to any of the teams before 1980.

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    Premium Member ThrillVille Cardinal51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCC9 View Post
    Where's PP92??
    Work

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    You must not be very old. back in the 50 60 70 Catholics were not aloud to play in the tour. about NCC in the 60 they played in the GCL because 9th region teams did not play them.
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    Also back in the day Dayton had very good football teams.
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    Premium Member jbwill2's Avatar
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    Boy, this would be tough to determine with any sort of credibility. You would have to look at how individual match-ups would go (i.e., how would Highlands have matched up against Lou St. X in 2009), and not just try to extrapolate from common opponents.

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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbwill2 View Post
    Boy, this would be tough to determine with any sort of credibility. You would have to look at how individual match-ups would go (i.e., how would Highlands have matched up against Lou St. X in 2009), and not just try to extrapolate from common opponents.
    Exactly. There really is no way of ever knowing. Shoot HHS could have as many or none. You can't ever tell. Match ups are one of the most important determining factors of a games outcome when teams seem to be evenly as good.
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    Premium Member Hellbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbird View Post
    The low hanging fruit on this one for a Highlands fan are the ones where we either beat the bigger school state champ or where we beat a school that beat the big school state champ. So I would think we would have a good shot in the following years:

    2009: Highlands beat Cincy X and Cincy X beat 6A state champ Lou. St. X.
    1999: HHS crushed Cov. Cath. Lou. St. X lost to Cov. Cath
    1998: HHS beat eventual 4A state champ Male.
    1982: HHS beat eventual 4A state champ Christian County

    There are other years I think we would have done very well 2008, 2000, 1981, but these were the ones above were the first ones I thought of. I can't speak to any of the teams before 1980.
    You really can't go off of that either though. Just about every year there are teams that beat eventual Champions, doesn't mean that means they would win it all. For instance, are you saying if Conner was in 4A last season they would of played HHS for the championship because Conner beat Cov Cath who many feel was HHS best competitor in the state last year.
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    Well, if you assume that the large school class/classes would be the only classes that could beat Highlands, then 1960 Highlands beat a very good Louisville Male team who then went on to win the large school class ( AAA ) that year. As Oldbird has already mentioned the 1982 Highlands state champs beat eventual large school champs Christian County. and the 1998 Highlands state champs beat Louisville Male (AAAA) the eventual large school class state champ. Those 3 years are hard to argue that Highlands would not have won the entire state.

    I agree with dennis 12b NCC had some very good teams in the 60's. I believe they tied for the GCL championship in 1969 season with Cincinnati Moeller. and their 1965 team was very good

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    Premium Member jbwill2's Avatar
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    Another problem with this is assuming that because one team beat another team in the regular season, then that team would also likely win again if they played in late November/early December. Teams can change over the course of the season, either for better or worse, and injuries can occur. Heck, look at how many times in the Highlands-CovCath and Trinity-St. X rivalries that the loser of the regular season game has gone on to win the playoff rematch.
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