Should Private Schools Have Their Own Class?

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View Poll Results: Should Private Schools Have Their Own Class?

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  • Yes

    34 23.78%
  • No

    100 69.93%
  • Maybe

    9 6.29%
  • I Don't Know

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosox1 View Post
    If we as a state stop building new schools & start expanding existing schools, are we even having this discussion? cuts both ways...
    Perhaps this is true, but more accurately if a public school could have a male enrollment population of 1100-1200 to match X & T it might not be relevant either. However an all male public school couldn’t happen, so the overall school population would likely have to be in the 2500 student range to reach that level of male population. Then from a financial standpoint the schools monetary resources would be significantly more spread out than the 1200 student sized all male population school.
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  2. #32
    gchs_uk9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneRanger View Post
    Perhaps this is true, but more accurately if a public school could have a male enrollment population of 1100-1200 to match X & T it might not be relevant either. However an all male public school couldn’t happen, so the overall school population would likely have to be in the 2500 student range to reach that level of male population. Then from a financial standpoint the schools monetary resources would be significantly more spread out than the 1200 student sized all male population school.
    FWIW, both Henry Clay and Scott County had more boys in their schools in 2016-17 than did Trinity. Paul Dunbar had 27 fewer boys than Trinity. Obviously Henry Clay and Dunbar's numbers likely are adjusted this year due to the opening of Frederick Douglass.

    http://khsaa.org/reports/enrollments...lsbyenroll.pdf

    Scott County is showing that with a sizable population a large school can at least sniff at the success of Trinity and St. X. It would be interesting to see what Boone County would look like if there was no Ryle or Cooper. I'm not sure if any other school (or would-be school pre-consolidation) would even still have the numbers to compete.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by gchs_uk9 View Post
    FWIW, both Henry Clay and Scott County had more boys in their schools in 2016-17 than did Trinity. Paul Dunbar had 27 fewer boys than Trinity. Obviously Henry Clay and Dunbar's numbers likely are adjusted this year due to the opening of Frederick Douglass.

    http://khsaa.org/reports/enrollments...lsbyenroll.pdf

    Scott County is showing that with a sizable population a large school can at least sniff at the success of Trinity and St. X. It would be interesting to see what Boone County would look like if there was no Ryle or Cooper. I'm not sure if any other school (or would-be school pre-consolidation) would even still have the numbers to compete.
    Yes, & that’s why the financial impact of support has to be considered. Particularly for Football, which there is cost involved.
    Look at what Scott County has put into Athletics at their one HS in recent years. 2 turf practice fields on campus. An amazing weight room/field house building, etc etc. Will be interesting to see how new HS impacts that long term.
    As for Lex, FDHS is getting a lot now because leaders are striking while funding is available to the new school using those resources. 3 years from now will they still be able to put money toward that school the way they are now? Time will tell but the larger the public district the more the “if we do for one we must do for the other” mentality becomes an issue.
    As for Boone County, take a look at the level of success before the opening of the other schools until now....
    This is where T & X truly have an advantage. They can support Football specifically at a higher level than a public school can. Which is a reason why people are attracted to them in a sense. This same thing would be true if we were talking about a great Biology Department, or Foriegn Language Studies or Club Sports or whatever a particular Private school might want to really support in a serious way. A private school can and will be run in a different way than a public school. It is the very reason why some people desire to send their child to private schools, No?

  4. #34
    Colonels_Wear_Blue's Avatar
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    Here is a listing of all the state finals results since the KHSAA switched to the 6-class system.

    plain text - independent public school
    bold text - public "county" school
    red text - private school
    blue text - miltary/other school



    1A

    2017 Beechwood 41-0 Raceland
    2016 Beechwood 21-14 Hazard
    2015 Pikeville 42-28 Beechwood
    2014 Mayfield 28-27 OT Williamsburg
    2013 Mayfield 42-0 Williamsburg
    2012 Mayfield 55-8 VACATED (Fairview)
    2011 Hazard 24-6 Mayfield
    2010 Mayfield 47-6 Hazard
    2009 Lexington Christian 55-19 Mayfield
    2008 Beechwood 14-7 Hazard
    2007 Beechwood 38-35 Lexington Christian

    2A
    2017 Danville 35-21 Mayfield
    2016 Christian Academy-Lou. 24-6 Danville
    2015 Mayfield 17-7 Newport Central Catholic
    2014 DeSales 26-0 Newport Central Catholic
    2013 DeSales 34-26 Newport Central Catholic
    2012 Newport Central Catholic 30-26 Caldwell County
    2011 Holy Cross (Cov.) 33-14 Glasgow
    2010 Newport Central Catholic 42-0 Owensboro Catholic
    2009 Fort Campbell 29-9 DeSales
    2008 Fort Campbell 26-23 Newport Central Catholic
    2007 Fort Campbell 21-7 Newport Central Catholic

    3A
    2017 Boyle County 40-21 Corbin
    2016 Belfry 52-31 Central
    2015 Belfry 43-0 Lexington Catholic
    2014 Belfry 14-7 Central
    2013 Belfry 3-0 Wayne County
    2012 Central 12-6 (OT) Belfry
    2011 Central 15-14 Belfry
    2010 Central 46-7 Belfry
    2009 Paducah Tilghman 21-0 Somerset
    2008 Central 40-19 Breathitt County
    2007 Central 27-17 Belfry

    4A
    2017 Franklin-Simpson 35-21 Johnson Central
    2016 Johnson Central 48-0 Franklin-Simpson
    2015 South Warren 36-6 Johnson Central
    2014 Highlands 49-42 Owensboro
    2013 Collins 37-34 Highlands
    2012 Highlands 47-0 Collins
    2011 Highlands 42-14 Franklin-Simpson
    2010 Boyle County 21-14 Allen Co.-Scottsville
    2009 Boyle County 42-39 (2OT) Lone Oak
    2008 Bell County 15-13 Bullitt East
    2007 Lexington Catholic 49-7 Lone Oak

    5A
    2017 Covington Catholic 49-13 Madison Southern
    2016 Bowling Green 70-22 Pulaski County
    2015 Bowling Green 21-7 Pulaski County
    2014 Pulaski County 14-7 Graves County
    2013 Bowling Green 49-14 Pulaski County
    2012 Bowling Green 34-20 Cooper
    2011 Bowling Green 55-3 Anderson County
    2010 Highlands 50-0 Christian County
    2009 Highlands 35-7 John Hardin
    2008 Highlands 35-15 Christian County
    2007 Highlands 28-7 Bowling Green

    6A
    2017 Trinity (Louisville) 38-21 St. Xavier
    2016 Trinity (Louisville) 56-21 Lafayette
    2015 Male 41-14 Lafayette
    2014 Trinity (Louisville) 47-14 Dixie Heights
    2013 Scott County 21-14 Meade County
    2012 Trinity (Louisville) 61-7 Pleasure Ridge Park
    2011 Trinity (Louisville) 62-21 Scott County
    2010 Trinity (Louisville) 38-0 Male
    2009 St. Xavier 34-10 Trinity (Louisville)
    2008 Trinity (Louisville) 48-0 Simon Kenton
    2007 Trinity (Louisville) 34-28 (OT) St. Xavier
    Last edited by Colonels_Wear_Blue; Jan 11, 18 at 11:50 AM.

  5. #35
    Colonels_Wear_Blue's Avatar
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    Since the KHSAA switched to the 6-class system (figures are a total tally, not the number of unique teams):

    1A
    Participating In State Finals
    2 private school teams
    20 independent public school teams
    0 public “county” school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    1 private school winner
    10 independent public school winners
    0 public “county” school winners


    2A
    Participating In State Finals
    13 private school teams
    5 independent private school team
    1 public “county” school team
    3 other/military school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    6 private school winners
    2 independent private school winners
    0 public “county” school winners
    3 other/military school winners


    3A
    Participating In State Finals
    1 private school team
    3 independent public school teams
    18 public “county” school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    0 private school winners
    1 independent public school winner
    10 public “county” school winners


    4A
    Participating In State Finals
    1 private school team
    5 independent public school teams
    16 public “county” school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    1 private school winner
    3 independent public school winners
    7 public “county” school winners


    5A
    Participating In State Finals
    1 private school team
    10 independent public school teams
    11 public “county” school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    1 private school winner
    9 independent public school winners
    1 public “county” school winner


    6A
    Participating In State Finals
    12 private school teams
    0 independent public school teams
    10 public “county” school teams

    Winning The State Finals
    9 private school winners
    0 independent public school winners
    2 public “county” school winners
    Last edited by Colonels_Wear_Blue; Jan 5, 18 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #36
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    Since the KHSAA switched to the 6-class system:

    There have been 66 state championship football games played across all classes.

    There have been 18 state championship wins (27.27% of total) by teams from private schools.

    There have been 25 state championship wins (37.87% of total) by teams from independent public schools.

    There have been 20 state championship wins (30.31% of total) by teams from public "county" schools.

    There have been 3 state championship wins by (4.55% of total) teams from military schools.

  7. #37
    Colonels_Wear_Blue's Avatar
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    Since the KHSAA switched to the 6-class system:


    There have been 66 state championship football games played across all classes, making for 132 team appearances in by teams in the state finals.


    There have been 30 state championship appearances (22.72% of total) by teams from private schools.


    There have been 43 state championship appearances (32.58% of total) by teams from independent public schools.


    There have been 56 state championship appearances (42.43% of total) by teams from public "county" schools.


    There have been 3 state championship appearances by (2.27% of total) teams from military schools.
    Last edited by Colonels_Wear_Blue; Jan 11, 18 at 11:52 AM.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue View Post
    Since the KHSAA switched to the 6-class system:

    There have been 66 state championship football games played across all classes.

    There have been 18 state championship wins (27.27% of total) by teams from private schools.

    There have been 25 state championship wins (37.87% of total) by teams from independent public schools.

    There have been 20 state championship wins (30.31% of total) by teams from public "county" schools.

    There have been 3 state championship wins by (4.55% of total) teams from military schools.
    So we really need a separate playoff class for independent schools...

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneRanger View Post
    Yes, & that’s why the financial impact of support has to be considered. Particularly for Football, which there is cost involved.
    Look at what Scott County has put into Athletics at their one HS in recent years. 2 turf practice fields on campus. An amazing weight room/field house building, etc etc. Will be interesting to see how new HS impacts that long term.
    As for Lex, FDHS is getting a lot now because leaders are striking while funding is available to the new school using those resources. 3 years from now will they still be able to put money toward that school the way they are now? Time will tell but the larger the public district the more the “if we do for one we must do for the other” mentality becomes an issue.
    As for Boone County, take a look at the level of success before the opening of the other schools until now....
    This is where T & X truly have an advantage. They can support Football specifically at a higher level than a public school can. Which is a reason why people are attracted to them in a sense. This same thing would be true if we were talking about a great Biology Department, or Foriegn Language Studies or Club Sports or whatever a particular Private school might want to really support in a serious way. A private school can and will be run in a different way than a public school. It is the very reason why some people desire to send their child to private schools, No?
    I will point out that some of the perceived advantages are result of prioritization or focus and not an 'inherent' or systemic advantage.

    Financial - I am pretty sure that tuitions are not funding ongoing operations. The privates have to raise football funds just for football. If the funding raising falls short then parents have to kick in the remaining. At least at LexCath.

    Facilities - Some schools may have nice fields but the 'back-office' facilities like weight-rooms, etc. vary greatly. With fields - places like Trinity and LexCath are landlocked. The football field is shared with all the other sports - soccer, lacrosse, etc. And remember that St. X's very nice facilities did not exist for decades as they played in the very old Manuel stadium.

    In Lexington the publics are now all on turf. Lafayette is probably the 'best' field in the county (though I have not been to FD).

    I think inherent advantage is more parental involvement, focus and enthusiasm. Along with history, heritage and tradition.

    While those things may be hard to measure there is one objective advantage T and X do have. That is to field 100+ player freshman teams. Its a raw numerical advantage but also it drives internal competition since not all of those players going to be playing JV the following year. And not all the JVs will see action at the varsity level. So every player is focused every practice and in every play on the field. They learn to execute each time and not get sloppy. And by the time they are in varsity they have run every play in the playbook so many times with perfection that they have unmatched confidence level. This is the sort of culture and advantage that the high numbers of players provide. I really believe that this why these two schools are separated from the others large schools.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    I will point out that some of the perceived advantages are result of prioritization or focus and not an 'inherent' or systemic advantage.

    Financial - I am pretty sure that tuitions are not funding ongoing operations. The privates have to raise football funds just for football. If the funding raising falls short then parents have to kick in the remaining. At least at LexCath.

    Facilities - Some schools may have nice fields but the 'back-office' facilities like weight-rooms, etc. vary greatly. With fields - places like Trinity and LexCath are landlocked. The football field is shared with all the other sports - soccer, lacrosse, etc. And remember that St. X's very nice facilities did not exist for decades as they played in the very old Manuel stadium.

    In Lexington the publics are now all on turf. Lafayette is probably the 'best' field in the county (though I have not been to FD).

    I think inherent advantage is more parental involvement, focus and enthusiasm. Along with history, heritage and tradition.

    While those things may be hard to measure there is one objective advantage T and X do have. That is to field 100+ player freshman teams. Its a raw numerical advantage but also it drives internal competition since not all of those players going to be playing JV the following year. And not all the JVs will see action at the varsity level. So every player is focused every practice and in every play on the field. They learn to execute each time and not get sloppy. And by the time they are in varsity they have run every play in the playbook so many times with perfection that they have unmatched confidence level. This is the sort of culture and advantage that the high numbers of players provide. I really believe that this why these two schools are separated from the others large schools.
    I agree with everything in your post with the exception of one point. While the Advantages may not be inherent they are in my opinion systemic.

    Your points about Fr/JV level at T & X, and the benefits gained are spot on as well.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneRanger View Post
    I agree with everything in your post with the exception of one point. While the Advantages may not be inherent they are in my opinion systemic.

    Your points about Fr/JV level at T & X, and the benefits gained are spot on as well.
    I can agree with that update.

  12. #42

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    Also, one last point to Bluegrasscard's very good post above...
    While all the Lex Schools are on turf & have nice fields, as do many schools now. Everyone I know that has a turf field has to share it to some extent, I would be willing to place a hefty wager on the fact that Band, Soccer or some other activity is NOT on the field during a Football Practice at T or X. (Or anywhere that supports their program even a little for that matter.)

  13. #43

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    What if private and independent schools were put into one division and split into 2 classes. Then put all the public schools into 4 classes. Same number of classes. Make the biggest private/independent class 8 teams to get more schools away from Trinity and X, since that's what most of this is about anyway.

    Or just put Trinity and X in a 2 team class....same result as it is now.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gchs_uk9 View Post
    I think what @74devil is saying is that it isn't really a "private school" problem in the eyes of many, but rather a "Trinity" problem. If Trinity hadn't completely dominated AAAA and now 6A most wouldn't care about whether public and private schools played against one another.

    Or to put it another way - nobody is wringing their hands over Country Day, Brossart or Bethlehem.
    Bethlehem is the ONLY private school in the 5th Region, yet since 2000, has maybe 15 combined region titles across all sports.

    Since they are private, after all, shouldn't they be straight up dominating the 5th since there is no other private school within miles and miles?

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneRanger View Post
    Also, one last point to Bluegrasscard's very good post above...
    While all the Lex Schools are on turf & have nice fields, as do many schools now. Everyone I know that has a turf field has to share it to some extent, I would be willing to place a hefty wager on the fact that Band, Soccer or some other activity is NOT on the field during a Football Practice at T or X. (Or anywhere that supports their program even a little for that matter.)
    Trinity has a practice field that is located a few blocks from the school. At least when my son played at T, they practiced there, not on the game field. That field is grass and has a pretty busy street as a boundary.

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