Scrimmage scouting ethics?

I want to know where everyone stands on this issue. How do you feel about coaches from opposing teams secretly scouting their scrimmage opponents?

Doesn't matter it is a scrimmage?

Ethically wrong?

Something else?

Don't really see the point in it. Scrimmages are supposed to help both teams evaluate their team and figure out what needs work. I don't have a problem with a coach scouting a teamthey're going to scrimmage but I really don't see why they would feel the need to.

It is a real fear. I know of coaches that do not want their scrimmage dates publicized because they don't want opposing teams at their scrimmages. That leaves me to believe that there is some knowledge to be gained for opposing teams.

I've always thought it to be the norm to scout scrimmages. No real difference than sending coaches to a regular season game for scouting purposes.

This is a good topic. I like to see everyones view on this.

Originally Posted by Harry Doyle

I've always thought it to be the norm to scout scrimmages. No real difference than sending coaches to a regular season game for scouting purposes.

This is exactly how I see it.

I understand your guys point. But a scrimmage to me, is a glorified practice, folks close off practices. Games are fair game. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by GOINGFOR2

I understand your guys point. But a scrimmage to me, is a glorified practice, folks close off practices. Games are fair game. Just my opinion.

If that were the case they there should not be a crowd, no parents, no concession sales for a scrimmage. When you open it up, every gets a look.

[QUOTE=plantmanky;4406954]If that were the case they there should not be a crowd, no parents, no concession sales for a scrimmage. When you open it up, every gets a look.[/QUOT

Agreed. If you are out here opening up for business and collecting money, you get what you get. But what if you don't. IMO family has no bearing on it. Again, it just feels underhanded to me to come out and actively scout a practice of an opponent. Games are games, and are fair game.

[QUOTE=GOINGFOR2;4406957]

Originally Posted by plantmanky

If that were the case they there should not be a crowd, no parents, no concession sales for a scrimmage. When you open it up, every gets a look.[/QUOT

Agreed. If you are out here opening up for business and collecting money, you get what you get. But what if you don't. IMO family has no bearing on it. Again, it just feels underhanded to me to come out and actively scout a practice of an opponent. Games are games, and are fair game.

That is my template. I believe I have paid to get it in to every scrimmage I have been to. And bought popcorn and a coke also. I have also been to scrimmages where the entire visitor side was full like a regular season game.(Danville/Mercer at Danville). I have always seen coaches at scrimmages also.

I misread the question. There are teams that scout their scrimmage opponents?

That's hardcore. I was thinking scouting at scrimmages. Not scouting scrimmage opponents.

Wow. Yeah, this is a good topic. Is this normal behavior in high school football?

If you mean scouting a team that you are going to scrimmage prior to a scrimmage: I would assume that means secretly scouting their practices to prepare for the scrimmage, and that would be ethically wrong. I think practices are off limits for other programs. Their should be a feeling of privacy at a practice and no fear of spying eyes.

If you mean future opponents coming to your scrimmage to scout your team for a regular season game: Scrimmages are open to the public and fair game for scouting. If you are "practicing" or "scrimmaging" in public you have to anticipate other teams will be there to take a peak. We held our Orange/Black game yesterday, three schools were there scouting us. This was a "public" or open practice session with hundreds of people in attendance and is fair game for on lookers. The only ethical situation that could arise is, filming. No team is permitted to film a game of an opponent when they are not playing each other. So, a team should, and is, not permitted to film your scrimmage in an attempt to prepare for your regular season game.

This reminds me of a similar situation that happened to me once. I had a parent of one of my players that was the uncle of a player on another team. His Nephew had a scrimmage one night and he went to watch his nephew play. Well the uncle came to me talking about the scrimmage and gave a few notes, they ran a 50 Defense, a lot of FB dives, out routes, sweeps, watch # 34 on defense, those kinda things, nothing to specific.

Forward to the next week when the nephews coach sees me after one of our games and decides to give me a loud earful for sending someone to scout their scrimmage, how unsportsmanlike it was and all this and that. After about a 15 minute conversation, and this coach is still just as mad as a wet hen, I reach into my gear bag, pull out one of our playbooks and hand it to him. Look him in the eye and said here is our playbook, this should make us even and make everything fair now, and I walked away from him.

Needless to say he was mad as hell, when we had a whole new offense 2 weeks later when we played them.

WOW....^^^^^LOL.

This thread also reminds me of something that happened back in my playing days where a school scouted one of our scrimmages before we played them the first week of the season. Due to the fact that the coaches involved are still coaching I won't go into specifics, but If I ever see any of you in person, remind me to tell you the story, it's a good one.

Originally Posted by GOINGFOR2

WOW....^^^^^LOL.

I have to admit I had a smile on my face that whole game against them. We got up by 3 TD really early in the first quarter, so I put our scout team offense out there, and ran their own playbook against them till half time, probably wasn't the classiest thing to do, but our kids had a blast pounding them with their own plays.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

I misread the question. There are teams that scout their scrimmage opponents?

That's hardcore. I was thinking scouting at scrimmages. Not scouting scrimmage opponents.

Wow. Yeah, this is a good topic. Is this normal behavior in high school football?

Now you have the question right.

Also, I think most coaches know that a team is not going to show everything in the pre-season scrimmages. How much scouting can you get from a scrimmage? Unless there is a coaching change at an opposing school, the coaching already know what offense and defense a team is going to run and it's been my experience that a team normally runs their base O and base D in scrimmages. There may be a few new plays that they want to see in game speed, but they are normally pretty vanilla.

Now, I have known teams to put in a special package just for the scrimmage to though scouts off. For instance: we are a spread team, and our coaches put in the Wing T base package for the pre-season scrimmage then never ran it again. But every team we played had to at least put in an hour of prep for that prior to playing us in case we did it again.

For the record I think it is crazy and unethical to scout an opponent that you are going to scrimmage but I'll add that I have never coached or played at the high school level so if it's the norm then I guess I am just behind and out of the loop on football etiquette.

Originally Posted by theguru

Now you have the question right.

I would say it is semi normal yes, I don't think teams are scouting per say playbook as much as they are key players. I think it also depends on when said team that is doing the scouting is playing the team they are looking at. If its in a few weeks, then yes perhaps more playbook type stuff, if its later in the year, than more key players to watch.