Scrimmage scouting ethics?

Originally Posted by hoosierbirdfan

If anybody was scouting the Trinity and Highlands scrimmage last year were not getting much information.The Birds only threw the ball two times and that was late in the 4th quarter. With a D1 QB (Towles) and a D1 WR (Sheehan), the Birds were working on the running game, it was obvious. The Birds had several players on the O line that were not playing due to injury. That could be the reason for not throwing the ball, to give other O lineman the experience, or to give starting O line players more time to heal. If someone was scouting that scrimmage, they went back to their team and said Highlands will run the ball 90% of the time. I'm sure that scout looked foolish, after Sheehan caught those 50 and 60 yard bombs during the regular season, on a regular basis.

Thread is not about scouting a scrimmage. It's about scouting a private practice of a team you are getting ready to scrimmage.

Originally Posted by RomanEmpire

Thread is not about scouting a scrimmage. It's about scouting a private practice of a team you are getting ready to scrimmage.

Ok, thanks.

I was very surprised to hear that Beechwood would resort to spying on Conner practicing. Is winning a scrimmage that important? I hope the coaching staff at Conner has the boys ready on Friday. After learning about Spygate II the Conner/Beechwood scrimmage is where I really wish I could be this Friday.

I know it's just a scrimmage but good luck anyways Conner!!!

Originally Posted by CoachBuckett

Let me say I think it is dumbest thing I ever heard of. Why? If you call the coach and ask what they are doing on defense and offense they will tell you.

Not sure the point behind it. Scrimmage is about getting better. Not winning.

^^ This.

I've NEVER gone into a scrimmage with a team with a new coach or someone we hadn't played before who did not tell me exactly what kind of offense/defense they ran. For games after all, we all willingly exchange at least 2 previous games with each other.

And I agree with the earlier post about giving the other team your playbook. Andrew Coverdale presents at every clinic he can in the winter, he writes books about his offensive approach (including detailed diagrams and blocking rules), and you can even download the whole Trinity playbook on scribD. Doesn't mean you know WHAT he's going to call when he calls it.

Originally Posted by CoachJ

you can even download the whole Trinity playbook on scribD. Doesn't mean you know WHAT he's going to call when he calls it.

And even if you did know with all that talent you ain't gonna stop it!

Originally Posted by theguru

And even if you did know with all that talent you ain't gonna stop it!

Hoping to at least get a chance. But you're right, they're very explosive and would be tough to stop for any HS.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

It is a real fear. I know of coaches that do not want their scrimmage dates publicized because they don't want opposing teams at their scrimmages. That leaves me to believe that there is some knowledge to be gained for opposing teams.

Sure there is, just like you can go and record the whole thing with your phone and post it on 5 different websites. If a coach is that paranoid he probably needs some help and I don't mean more coaches.

Originally Posted by sportsfan41

Sure there is, just like you can go and record the whole thing with your phone and post it on 5 different websites. If a coach is that paranoid he probably needs some help and I don't mean more coaches.

I don't disagree with your logic. Just saying I know coaches who don't want their scrimmage dates publicized at all.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

I misread the question. There are teams that scout their scrimmage opponents?

That's hardcore. I was thinking scouting at scrimmages. Not scouting scrimmage opponents.

Wow. Yeah, this is a good topic. Is this normal behavior in high school football?

That's what I'm saying, it's stupid. Do you realize how often my friends and I reminisce about the scrimmage against NewCath going in to our senior year...... The only meaningful memory I have from that night is that it was the first time I ever tried dip. It doesn't go in the record books, it means nothing, it's simply used for evaluation and to try to get ready for the season.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

I don't disagree with your logic. Just saying I know coaches who don't want their scrimmage dates publicized at all.

And I would not hesitate to call them idiots, I might speak up though if I thought they could hear me.

For the record there's only one scrimmage where pre-scrimmage practice-watching scouting is allowed.

THE SUPER BOWL OF ALL HIGH SCHOOL SCRIMMAGES

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

I was very surprised to hear that Beechwood would resort to spying on Conner practicing. Is winning a scrimmage that important? I hope the coaching staff at Conner has the boys ready on Friday. After learning about Spygate II the Conner/Beechwood scrimmage is where I really wish I could be this Friday.

I know it's just a scrimmage but good luck anyways Conner!!!

Makes me wonder if the BW staff lacks confidence in the horses they have in the stable!

I remember a few years ago, Somerset went all the way to Frankfort for a 4 team round robin scrimmage. During the game the head coach from Southwestern and several players showed up to watch. Somerset was to be their week 2 opponent that year, so I guess they were trying to get a leg up by scouting the scrimmage.

Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad

I remember a few years ago, Somerset went all the way to Frankfort for a 4 team round robin scrimmage. During the game the head coach from Southwestern and several players showed up to watch. Somerset was to be their week 2 opponent that year, so I guess they were trying to get a leg up by scouting the scrimmage.

Nothing wrong with that IMO.

Had the team that Somerset scrimmaged shown up at a Somerset practice prior to the scrimmage then that's a problem.

My take on this is simple; it's highly unethical completely unnecessary.

As others have said, it's wrong for coaches to watch another team practice, unless they've been given permission. Outdoor practices are hard to totally close off, but that shouldn't make them open season for "scouts" from other schools. Some decorum should be understood.

Again, as others have said, it's unnecessary because coaches will usually tell the other team exactly what they're going to work on during the scrimmage. Heck, the coaches can set up the scrimmage exactly how they wish so both teams get maximum benefit from it. Coaches can choose their scrimmage opponents, and usually do with like minded programs so both teams get what they are looking for.

I get that in the day of social media, scrimmages are made out to be a big deal to a lot of people. But, coaches and programs in general should be better than caving in to such a thing.

Based on things I have heard I wonder if the entire Beechwood coaching staff is/was even aware that they had a coach at Conner watching them practice. This could be the action of a renegade coach acting on his own. I'd hate to think the entire staff was in on it and while I know a Beechwood coach was there I'd hate to indict the entire staff for the actions of one if this was indeed the actions of one person.

Still stinks to high Heaven.


Spygate II. Over a scrimmage. What in the world......

Originally Posted by Ram

If you mean scouting a team that you are going to scrimmage prior to a scrimmage: I would assume that means secretly scouting their practices to prepare for the scrimmage, and that would be ethically wrong. I think practices are off limits for other programs. Their should be a feeling of privacy at a practice and no fear of spying eyes.

If you mean future opponents coming to your scrimmage to scout your team for a regular season game: Scrimmages are open to the public and fair game for scouting. If you are "practicing" or "scrimmaging" in public you have to anticipate other teams will be there to take a peak. We held our Orange/Black game yesterday, three schools were there scouting us. This was a "public" or open practice session with hundreds of people in attendance and is fair game for on lookers. The only ethical situation that could arise is, filming. No team is permitted to film a game of an opponent when they are not playing each other. So, a team should, and is, not permitted to film your scrimmage in an attempt to prepare for your regular season game.

Agreed.

I recall a Mason County-Ashland scrimmage a few years back. Word got to me that an upcoming regular-season opponent was there scouting, which seemed fine to me; but that they were filming, which was not so fine. I heard that they had to destroy the film. But I'm not close enough to the teams to verify any of this - just secondhand info.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

Based on things I have heard I wonder if the entire Beechwood coaching staff is/was even aware that they had a coach at Conner watching them practice. This could be the action of a renegade coach acting on his own. I'd hate to think the entire staff was in on it and while I know a Beechwood coach was there I'd hate to indict the entire staff for the actions of one if this was indeed the actions of one person.

Still stinks to high Heaven.


Spygate II. Over a scrimmage. What in the world......

I understand your point, and it is well taken. BUT, the action of a member of a staff will, and should, reflect the entire staff. If your scenario is accurate and true, the "renegade" coach should be reprimanded, and the reprimand should be made public to protect the integrity of the Beechwood program. It's has to be made public to show that the program was not involved and does not condone such behavior.

I would venture a guess that this will not happen.

Originally Posted by Ram

I understand your point, and it is well taken. BUT, the action of a member of a staff will, and should, reflect the entire staff. If your scenario is accurate and true, the "renegade" coach should be reprimanded, and the reprimand should be made public to protect the integrity of the Beechwood program. It's has to be made public to show that the program was not involved and does not condone such behavior.

I would venture a guess that this will not happen.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for it but I agree with you 100%.

Originally Posted by Ram

I understand your point, and it is well taken. BUT, the action of a member of a staff will, and should, reflect the entire staff. If your scenario is accurate and true, the "renegade" coach should be reprimanded, and the reprimand should be made public to protect the integrity of the Beechwood program. It's has to be made public to show that the program was not involved and does not condone such behavior.

I would venture a guess that this will not happen.

If there is no public reprimand, then one would have to conclude that the action was condoned.