Oklahoma Halts State Football Playoffs!

Page 2 of Originally Posted by offside ...you wanna be an official? Lemme know.. offside I learned that in class once. I need to get to double digit posts first ... 36 comments | 2265 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #16
    GR8BigBull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05
    Posts
    620

    When I say blanks, I mean we did not see what the officials saw nor are we privy to all the details. I do honestly believe that the offsetting penalties we see all too often are an easy way out and a slap on the wrist. Officicals can put and end to alot of unnecessary activity on the field by calling penalties on the offender they see whether retaliation or instigation. We also see all too often players allowed to get an extra push or shove in before the officials start cracking down. Call infractions of the personal foul and unsportsman like variety when they happen and most of it will decline.
    Advertisement

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Nov 02
    Location
    Ft. Mitchell Ky
    Posts
    21,150

    Regardless, it did go to court and the courts ordered the player eligible. I am sure if any one of us disobeyed a court order we would end up in jail. Not playing the game is just finding a loophole around the law, the court that said he could play, to me that is still disobeying a court order.

    None of us were there so we don't know how hard a hit the defensive player hit him, or how hard the "kick" was. So we can't say either way if it was the correct decision or not.

    Again, the simple thing is the OK athletic association play the game, tell the school this kid plays for that if they play the kid and he is afterwards ruled ineligible in the courts that they will forfeit the state title if they win. Let the school decide what they want to do.

  3. #18
    Thunderstruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 03
    Location
    Southeastern Kentucky
    Posts
    490

    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    Or, if you don't like the consequences, take it to court...
    Kind of sound like the privates in the prop 20 case hear......if they don't get their way they are going to fight it court!!!!! ROFLOL

  4. #19
    GR8BigBull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05
    Posts
    620

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsGuy41017
    Regardless, it did go to court and the courts ordered the player eligible. I am sure if any one of us disobeyed a court order we would end up in jail. Not playing the game is just finding a loophole around the law, the court that said he could play, to me that is still disobeying a court order.

    None of us were there so we don't know how hard a hit the defensive player hit him, or how hard the "kick" was. So we can't say either way if it was the correct decision or not.

    Again, the simple thing is the OK athletic association play the game, tell the school this kid plays for that if they play the kid and he is afterwards ruled ineligible in the courts that they will forfeit the state title if they win. Let the school decide what they want to do.
    Agreed! The OSSAA should play the game and let this BULL pan out after the season. The decision would have to be up to the coaching staff or school administration as to whether the player should actually be played in the game for fear of risking the title for the whole team. I am taking bets that if the staff decided against using the player that the parents would again go to court. Just a guess. We now have parents going to schools and threatening litigation if their kid does not get a scholarship offer. The coach "held the player back," "didn't give him the ball," "played him at OLB instead of DB," blah,blah,blah!

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 00
    Location
    Louisville, Ky USA
    Posts
    4,521

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    Kind of sound like the privates in the prop 20 case hear......if they don't get their way they are going to fight it court!!!!! ROFLOL
    Not exactly my friend, but keep trying.

  6. #21
    Xman85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 05
    Location
    Louisville
    Posts
    1,115

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    Kind of sound like the privates in the prop 20 case hear......if they don't get their way they are going to fight it court!!!!! ROFLOL
    Apples and Oranges....We have not broken any rules....and if we do...we will pay the price....

  7. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Posts
    589

    Please read the following newspaper column I copied from a football officials forum:

    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    HEADLINE: Shawnee fails to get lesson in suspension

    Saturday, Nov. 26

    By Berry Tramel
    The Oklahoman

    A 25-year teacher wrote me the other day. He's discouraged by the deterioration of the American classroom, and we both agree on the culprit.

    Bad parenting.

    He calls it the age of entitlement. "Educators/coaches fight this battle every day," the teacher wrote. "These young people feel like they are owed something because of the actions of their parents."

    Which brings us to the Class 5A state football semifinal between Shawnee and Tulsa East Central, which will not be played tonight, as scheduled.

    The Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association has postponed the game after quarterback Tucker Brown and his family, which includes Shawnee coach Billy Brown, received a temporary injunction allowing Tucker Brown to play.

    It's a sad day when high school sports become my-lawyer's-better-than-your-lawyer. It's a sad day when Friday Night Lights become Monday Morning Courtroom.

    It's a sad day when we fail to teach youngsters there are consequences to their actions.

    There is no debate that Tucker Brown kicked a Tulsa Washington player at the end of a game last Saturday night and was ejected, resulting in a two-game suspension.

    Defenders of Brown have trotted out several reasons why he should be allowed to play against East Central: poor officiating, poorly written rules, provocation by Washington players.

    But prisons are full of people who were provoked. Poor officiating is a cop-out. And picking over the wording of rules seems a lawyerly move.

    "This is an absolute rule," OSSAA executive secretary Danny Rennels said. "There is no doubt about what happened in this situation. No one has refuted that the young man in question kicked an opponent. It's very plainly what the violation is, very plainly what the rule is."

    Shawnee's school system is complicit in the attempt to circumvent the suspension. It's one thing for parents or even a coach to go to great lengths to get a player eligible. That's to be expected. Unfortunate, but expected.

    It's quite another for the school to go along. Where is the Shawnee administration? The superintendent?

    This was a prime teaching opportunity. A chance to teach an entire community and a big chunk of the state that some things are more important than playoff football. More important than state semifinals.

    Things like honor and responsibility and accepting consequences.

    Oh well. That's an old-fashioned way to look at it.

    "This is what has perplexed and saddened me over the last 10 years as an educator and coach," wrote the teacher. "I have seen more and more parents resort to intervention on the part of their child in order to keep them shielded from the 'bad' things that happen to them because of their child's poor decision.

    "Parents need to be continually reminded how their actions now will affect their children later."

    In the grand scheme, the 2005 Class 5A football tournament matters little. A society of solid citizens matters much.

    "I don't know if this is an indictment of society or not," Rennels said.

    Not an indictment. Just a symptom.

    By all accounts, including here in The Oklahoman, Tucker Brown is a quality kid. But he made a mistake, he broke a rule, and it's no small rule. Rennels called it a "foundation" rule.

    "This fighting rule has been reviewed a number of times, by coaches, by administrators, as recently as three years ago," Rennels said. "They want this rule in place. They think it is very important that we not allow things to develop where it gets to the point of fights."

    Is it fair that Tucker Brown's momentary lapse of judgment could keep him from the biggest game of his life?

    Maybe not. It's not fair that a kid breaks his leg in October. It's not fair that every good, hard-working kid doesn't get to experience the semifinal stage.

    Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes, we'd be better off teaching our kids that very fact.

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    comments?

    offside

  8. #23
    titletownclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 02
    Location
    Danville, KY
    Posts
    8,049

    This is just another case of judicial activism. There was a rule in place. It was broken. The offending team is unhappy so they run to court to try and get around the rule. Why even have rules? To some, rules are fine until you break one. Then, suddenly, they are unfair. It can be argued that you could probably find a judge to issue an injunction for just about anything if you look hard enough.

    So many in the judiciary seem to be bent on venturing into the legislative branch of government these days. Here's a suggestion. Take off your soiled robe and run for office if you want to legislate.

    The judge in this case would probably be a good candidate for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in CA.

  9. #24
    XgradROCKdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05
    Posts
    1,721

    The kicking was a ritual the player had been doing for about 6 years..... oh wait, that excuse has already been used....

  10. #25

    Join Date
    Nov 02
    Location
    Ft. Mitchell Ky
    Posts
    21,150

    This has nothing to do with a so called "activist" judge. I hate how people throw that word around, the only time a judge is considered as such is if you don't agree with their ruling. If the next judge overrules the original order then so be it, but if not then what? Will the OK athletic association listen? Or will they go around to find yet another judge who agrees with them? Rules are not as strong as the LAW, Are we teaching the kids to ignore the law? Regardless if you agree with it or not, the system (the law) was working, until someone found a loophole around the LAW!

    This game needs to be played now! Their are kids waiting to play the game of their lives. Let the kid play and let the issue play out in court, then see what happens.

  11. #26
    Covercorner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05
    Location
    Definition of a STUDENT-ATHLETE
    Posts
    1,648

    If the courts in OK uphold any injunction that goes to the opposite of the associations ruling, then by the spirit of justice in this country, that rule (or law if it was passed by a legislature) is deemed unconstitutional and henceforth no longer exists. Also, the court ruling would set a precedent that could be cited by anyone suspended under similar rules. If the rule says someone is suspended for a particular action, and the rule is inherently fair, the rule will not be overturned in the end. Associations and agencies have the power to make rules in this country that have the force of law. The FDA decided what temperature milk must be stored at, not Congress or the President. The courts will decide the issue of fairness according to the rule of law.

  12. #27

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Posts
    589

    Quote Originally Posted by Covercorner
    If the courts in OK uphold any injunction that goes to the opposite of the associations ruling, then by the spirit of justice in this country, that rule (or law if it was passed by a legislature) is deemed unconstitutional and henceforth no longer exists. Also, the court ruling would set a precedent that could be cited by anyone suspended under similar rules. If the rule says someone is suspended for a particular action, and the rule is inherently fair, the rule will not be overturned in the end. Associations and agencies have the power to make rules in this country that have the force of law. The FDA decided what temperature milk must be stored at, not Congress or the President. The courts will decide the issue of fairness according to the rule of law.
    ...you wanna be an official? Lemme know..

    offside

  13. #28
    GR8BigBull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05
    Posts
    620

    Quote Originally Posted by offside
    Please read the following newspaper column I copied from a football officials forum:

    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    HEADLINE: Shawnee fails to get lesson in suspension

    Saturday, Nov. 26

    By Berry Tramel
    The Oklahoman

    A 25-year teacher wrote me the other day. He's discouraged by the deterioration of the American classroom, and we both agree on the culprit.

    Bad parenting.

    He calls it the age of entitlement. "Educators/coaches fight this battle every day," the teacher wrote. "These young people feel like they are owed something because of the actions of their parents."

    Which brings us to the Class 5A state football semifinal between Shawnee and Tulsa East Central, which will not be played tonight, as scheduled.

    The Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association has postponed the game after quarterback Tucker Brown and his family, which includes Shawnee coach Billy Brown, received a temporary injunction allowing Tucker Brown to play.

    It's a sad day when high school sports become my-lawyer's-better-than-your-lawyer. It's a sad day when Friday Night Lights become Monday Morning Courtroom.

    It's a sad day when we fail to teach youngsters there are consequences to their actions.

    There is no debate that Tucker Brown kicked a Tulsa Washington player at the end of a game last Saturday night and was ejected, resulting in a two-game suspension.

    Defenders of Brown have trotted out several reasons why he should be allowed to play against East Central: poor officiating, poorly written rules, provocation by Washington players.

    But prisons are full of people who were provoked. Poor officiating is a cop-out. And picking over the wording of rules seems a lawyerly move.

    "This is an absolute rule," OSSAA executive secretary Danny Rennels said. "There is no doubt about what happened in this situation. No one has refuted that the young man in question kicked an opponent. It's very plainly what the violation is, very plainly what the rule is."

    Shawnee's school system is complicit in the attempt to circumvent the suspension. It's one thing for parents or even a coach to go to great lengths to get a player eligible. That's to be expected. Unfortunate, but expected.

    It's quite another for the school to go along. Where is the Shawnee administration? The superintendent?

    This was a prime teaching opportunity. A chance to teach an entire community and a big chunk of the state that some things are more important than playoff football. More important than state semifinals.

    Things like honor and responsibility and accepting consequences.

    Oh well. That's an old-fashioned way to look at it.

    "This is what has perplexed and saddened me over the last 10 years as an educator and coach," wrote the teacher. "I have seen more and more parents resort to intervention on the part of their child in order to keep them shielded from the 'bad' things that happen to them because of their child's poor decision.

    "Parents need to be continually reminded how their actions now will affect their children later."

    In the grand scheme, the 2005 Class 5A football tournament matters little. A society of solid citizens matters much.

    "I don't know if this is an indictment of society or not," Rennels said.

    Not an indictment. Just a symptom.

    By all accounts, including here in The Oklahoman, Tucker Brown is a quality kid. But he made a mistake, he broke a rule, and it's no small rule. Rennels called it a "foundation" rule.

    "This fighting rule has been reviewed a number of times, by coaches, by administrators, as recently as three years ago," Rennels said. "They want this rule in place. They think it is very important that we not allow things to develop where it gets to the point of fights."

    Is it fair that Tucker Brown's momentary lapse of judgment could keep him from the biggest game of his life?

    Maybe not. It's not fair that a kid breaks his leg in October. It's not fair that every good, hard-working kid doesn't get to experience the semifinal stage.

    Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes, we'd be better off teaching our kids that very fact.

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    comments?

    offside
    I think most of us know of a parent(s) that will go to any length to provide all that is good for their children. Unfortunately, the parent is doing more harm than good. We would all be in a better world if our younger generation were taught to abide by rules/laws and that they need to take responsibility for all their actions good or bad. Parents should also try to lead more by example, and be the role models our children look up to rather than allowing some of the low lifes that are publicized in the media to be these role models.

  14. #29
    titletownclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 02
    Location
    Danville, KY
    Posts
    8,049

    That article pretty much says it all and is applicable to many other areas of life.

  15. #30

    Join Date
    Aug 02
    Location
    Middlesboro ,KY
    Posts
    12,735

    Quote Originally Posted by offside
    Please read the following newspaper column I copied from a football officials forum:

    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    HEADLINE: Shawnee fails to get lesson in suspension

    Saturday, Nov. 26

    By Berry Tramel
    The Oklahoman

    A 25-year teacher wrote me the other day. He's discouraged by the deterioration of the American classroom, and we both agree on the culprit.

    Bad parenting.

    He calls it the age of entitlement. "Educators/coaches fight this battle every day," the teacher wrote. "These young people feel like they are owed something because of the actions of their parents."

    Which brings us to the Class 5A state football semifinal between Shawnee and Tulsa East Central, which will not be played tonight, as scheduled.

    The Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association has postponed the game after quarterback Tucker Brown and his family, which includes Shawnee coach Billy Brown, received a temporary injunction allowing Tucker Brown to play.

    It's a sad day when high school sports become my-lawyer's-better-than-your-lawyer. It's a sad day when Friday Night Lights become Monday Morning Courtroom.

    It's a sad day when we fail to teach youngsters there are consequences to their actions.

    There is no debate that Tucker Brown kicked a Tulsa Washington player at the end of a game last Saturday night and was ejected, resulting in a two-game suspension.

    Defenders of Brown have trotted out several reasons why he should be allowed to play against East Central: poor officiating, poorly written rules, provocation by Washington players.

    But prisons are full of people who were provoked. Poor officiating is a cop-out. And picking over the wording of rules seems a lawyerly move.

    "This is an absolute rule," OSSAA executive secretary Danny Rennels said. "There is no doubt about what happened in this situation. No one has refuted that the young man in question kicked an opponent. It's very plainly what the violation is, very plainly what the rule is."

    Shawnee's school system is complicit in the attempt to circumvent the suspension. It's one thing for parents or even a coach to go to great lengths to get a player eligible. That's to be expected. Unfortunate, but expected.

    It's quite another for the school to go along. Where is the Shawnee administration? The superintendent?

    This was a prime teaching opportunity. A chance to teach an entire community and a big chunk of the state that some things are more important than playoff football. More important than state semifinals.

    Things like honor and responsibility and accepting consequences.

    Oh well. That's an old-fashioned way to look at it.

    "This is what has perplexed and saddened me over the last 10 years as an educator and coach," wrote the teacher. "I have seen more and more parents resort to intervention on the part of their child in order to keep them shielded from the 'bad' things that happen to them because of their child's poor decision.

    "Parents need to be continually reminded how their actions now will affect their children later."

    In the grand scheme, the 2005 Class 5A football tournament matters little. A society of solid citizens matters much.

    "I don't know if this is an indictment of society or not," Rennels said.

    Not an indictment. Just a symptom.

    By all accounts, including here in The Oklahoman, Tucker Brown is a quality kid. But he made a mistake, he broke a rule, and it's no small rule. Rennels called it a "foundation" rule.

    "This fighting rule has been reviewed a number of times, by coaches, by administrators, as recently as three years ago," Rennels said. "They want this rule in place. They think it is very important that we not allow things to develop where it gets to the point of fights."

    Is it fair that Tucker Brown's momentary lapse of judgment could keep him from the biggest game of his life?

    Maybe not. It's not fair that a kid breaks his leg in October. It's not fair that every good, hard-working kid doesn't get to experience the semifinal stage.

    Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes, we'd be better off teaching our kids that very fact.

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    comments?

    offside
    Link???

Top