Most Influential Changes of the last 10 years.

The one thing that Boyle County had going for them is Danville, and I'm not necessarily talking about Danville's football program as much as Im talking about the town.

Boyle County was/is a "county" school yes, but the town of Danville has grown as much as Boyle County's football program. Fact is, that helps tremendously. When you have town pushing 20,000 people (like the city of Danville) that you draw much of your enrollment from, it helps tremendously.

I'm telling you, there is a direct correlation to that. Your "county" schools who happen to actually have large communities within it to draw from, can succeed on a perinnal basis (Boyle County, John Hardin, Henderson County, Scott County, Warren Central, Christian County and not to mention your Louisville and Lex schools, which are technically "county" schools).

The fact of the matter is that your typical, run of the mill "county" programs who have Mayberry type towns are never going to have programs like the greats in our state. Will you have a run a few good years here and there? Most definately. Consisitantly, though? Never. Why? Athletes or lack of. Mommy and Daddy's on here who have never lived outside of their small town community dont want to hear that, but it's the truth.

Independent school districts/programs have and always will be the best of the best in our state (not counting T and X, NewCath, LexCath, OCath):
Highlands
Beechwood
Mayfield
Tilghman
Bowling Green
Owensboro
Corbin
Pikeville
Hazard
Prestonsburg
Bardstown
Danville
Pikeville
Glasgow
Hopkinsville (even though they are part of the Christian County School District, like Prestonsburg is in the Floyd County school system, but it is what it is; we all know that)

Im willing to bet (figuartively speaking Mods), that if you look at the numbers for "county" schools who are elite programs, their city/county/community population is over 25,000. I'm willing to bet the house (again, figuratively speaking). And what I consider Elite is those programs playing for Region, Semi and/or State Championships on a year in, year out basis.

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

Never said it was a necessity. It's part of it.

And NewCath and HC are not Trinity.

Guess I missed your point. They aren't Trinity, but they can give any team outside of Highlands a heck of a game in 4A or lower.

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

Maybe not but there has there been proper research as to why Boyle County is an outlier and no one else is? Money isn't the reason Boyle County is an outlier so it's hard for me to use money as an excuse as to why others can't duplicate that success. We still struggle with money to this day but we keep on keeping on. The blueprint for success was laid and we still follow it. Money is involved but you can find success without having it. No sport at Boyle has been as successful as football at Boyle so obviously money isn't the sole reason for success. I can't accept the money argument based on what I have seen from Boyle.

Boyle County has an unusually high college placement rate. Research the factors behind that success and you may have an awnser. I have spend so much time and energy just trying to get this video game obsessed generation to PARTICIPATE in varsity sports. When a kid participates , their quality of life improves and so does their academic success. That for me is victory.

I think some of us in the proverbial Golden Triangle are not quite aware of reality in the rest of the state.

Originally Posted by Clyde

I think some of us in the proverbial Golden Triangle are not quite aware of reality in the rest of the state.

Having driven through Eastern Ky, I would think that just the logistics of getting to practice consistently during the summer would be difficult. Let alone the offseason things that have to be missed for summer/part-time jobs to help support the family. It's tough to compete in 4A when you have maybe 20 kids that can consistently get to all of the offseason work and practices, whereas Highlands and CovCath have 60+ kids at every workout and summer practice.

Originally Posted by Clyde

Conner already runs the same O that many schools do including T AND they have been for some time. T didn't invent the KY spread offense.

Actually their OC wrote the book...

Something else that most (I didn't) think about the last 10 years, and actually just in the last 5 years, but the coaching turnover rate. I read in a sticky thread on another website where there have been (I think) 184 Head Coaching changes since 2008 (184 give or take a few. I checked them and it's accurate). That is absolutely absurd to think about. How many football playing schools do we have in our state; 220 (+/- 4)?? That's over 80% of the schools who have had new coaches within the last four years.

It pains me to say it, but I don't see that slowing down, either.

Originally Posted by theguru

Actually their OC wrote the book...

It's my understanding that the level of detail run by T is unlike 99.9% of any high schools in the country.

So, again, I ask. How has T impacted KY outside of notoriety?

Any good estimates on how much schools spend on coaching salaries(not counting teacher/administrator/AD)?

Originally Posted by PurplePride92

I hear you there but Boyle has Field Turf now and it wouldn't have gotten the financial support needed had Chuck Smith not changed the attitude and culture of Boyle County football back in 1992. Things were bleak back then and his facelift on the program came through affecting the minds on the field not the pocketbooks. The culture change came first, then the money. The attitude currently reflected from Boyle County football provides collateral.

It is always interesting to hear the fight over time on that Field Turf also.

Everyone gets to use it but the football team feels they should get Carte Blanche with the field because without the football team it would still be grass over an old farm pond.

It's a good point....but.....uh........yeah.

Boyle had a culture at times in their past the experienced winning and were solid in the region. But by the time Chuck Smith had arrived the Rebels were in the worst stretch in their short history (school formed in the fall of '63). From '83 to '91 Boyle had ONE winning season. Smith reached back into the successful era and instilled a faith in the students that the Rebels could succeed. He changed the culture in small increments. Playing Danville closer, making the playoffs and getting farther each time, and instilling a work ethic Boyle had never had before (IMO).

The results were beating Danville in '96, advancing to the AA semi-finals, going undefeated in '97, annually beating the Admirals and finally kicking the door in with the '99 State Championship. From '92 to '99 the Rebels did not reach their final goal for those 7 years. A lot of programs are calling for new coaches and staff but Boyle rode it out with Chuck, Pardue and the rest of that great staff.

It takes patience to let the right coach work the program up to competing with anybody. I think Purple has it right.

Originally Posted by Hatz

Boyle had a culture at times in their past the experienced winning and were solid in the region. But by the time Chuck Smith had arrived the Rebels were in the worst stretch in their short history (school formed in the fall of '63). From '83 to '91 Boyle had ONE winning season. Smith reached back into the successful era and instilled a faith in the students that the Rebels could succeed. He changed the culture in small increments. Playing Danville closer, making the playoffs and getting farther each time, and instilling a work ethic Boyle had never had before (IMO).

The results were beating Danville in '96, advancing to the AA semi-finals, going undefeated in '97, annually beating the Admirals and finally kicking the door in with the '99 State Championship. From '92 to '99 the Rebels did not reach their final goal for those 7 years. A lot of programs are calling for new coaches and staff but Boyle rode it out with Chuck, Pardue and the rest of that great staff.

It takes patience to let the right coach work the program up to competing with anybody. I think Purple has it right.

That is exactly what I am getting at.

Originally Posted by Clyde

Again, I'd argue that teams can WANT to make football a priority but it's simply not economically doable for many. They can't afford a large number of coaches. They can't upgrade facilities like they want.

T is an aberration . I'd argue HHS should be looked at first because they're closer to reality for many even though they are still somewhat unique in abilities to do the above compared to most.

Can we use "anomaly" instead? "Aberration" is such an implication of evil.

If by KY spread you mean Air Raid which went across this state like wild fire then you are wrong about T. T is a pro style offense. Beatty's roots are in the run and shoot and Coverdale has impacted football all across the country. Not only by what they run but how they teach it. Few schools install and teach their offense like T. Honestly most schools can install and teach like them if you research it. Heck ask Coverdale and he'll tell you just about anything you want to know.

Two platoon football is more a matter of having the number of coaches. You might not be as talented but that comes from knowing how to split the talent. If all that kid does is work on that one position every day he is going to get better. He can be better than a kid with more talent but splits his time.

As far as the question goes I think there is a number of things. Spring football, more 7 on 7, better weight programs and better educated coaches.

Originally Posted by Clyde

Again, I'd argue that teams can WANT to make football a priority but it's simply not economically doable for many. They can't afford a large number of coaches. They can't upgrade facilities like they want.

T is an aberration . I'd argue HHS should be looked at first because they're closer to reality for many even though they are still somewhat unique in abilities to do the above compared to most.

Again, debatable. No money for coaches? Good volunteer coaches can be obtained. Is it easier? No. That is why some schools don't do it. Facilities? Beechwood and Highlands have bragged for years that they do not have good facilities. Have they found a way to be successful without spending money on facilities? Yes. Again, not the easy way, but it can be done.

If it were easy, everyone one would be doing it. But some do not want to do the work. People get mad at Highlands when they say they work harder. Maybe they do. I don't mean the team, I mean the program. Maybe the program works harder and does the things that others don't want to do.

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

I had this typed up last night but the site went on hold.

While I don't completely disagree that some programs aren't maximizing their potential, some ceilings are higher than others. Most kids at Trinity don't have to work, which leaves time to workout. Most kids at Trinity either have a vehicle or have a parent that is able to transport them to wherever they need to be. Most kids at Trinity have the money for a gym membership. Some even have personal trainers. Some go to camps and learn from college coaches....and so on and so on. All of this, along with a supportive community/coaching staff/administration...etc. is why Trinity is where they are.

In the end, to get to Trinity's level it takes money and a lot of schools/communities don't have it.

I am truly not trying to be insensitive to the challenges that you mention, but to be honest they are just excuses. Does having a car, not having to work, and having a personal trainer make it easier to be successful? Maybe. But success can be achieved without those things. We live in a world were virtually anything is possible.

Personal Trainer: Sure, it's nice, but players can run and train without one. In fact, I could argue that a player running on his own and doing non-convential workouts with ropes, chains, and sacks of horse feed would be in better shape then those going to a personal trainer.

Car: Sure, it's nice and makes traveling (and dating) easier, but a player can ride a bike to practice. Now I do realize that some would have to travel quite a distance, but for most it is possible. I used to ride a bike to work 10 miles and it was a great workout and doable, not because I had to, but because I wanted to. This also goes with the trainer.

Having to work: Sure, it makes it harder to work out and get better, but many players around the state do work and it can be done. Good exercise depending on the work, and the player will appreciate it later in life.

Things make it harder to achieve, but it is still doable.

Originally Posted by Ram

I am truly not trying to be insensitive to the challenges that you mention, but to be honest they are just excuses. Does having a car, not having to work, and having a personal trainer make it easier to be successful? Maybe. But success can be achieved without those things. We live in a world were virtually anything is possible.

Personal Trainer: Sure, it's nice, but players can run and train without one. In fact, I could argue that a player running on his own and doing non-convential workouts with ropes, chains, and sacks of horse feed would be in better shape then those going to a personal trainer.

Car: Sure, it's nice and makes traveling (and dating) easier, but a player can ride a back to practice. Now I do realize that some would have to travel quite a distance, but for most is is possible. I used to ride a bike to work 10 miles and it was a great workout and doable, not because I had to, but because I wanted to. This also goes with the trainer.

Having to work: Sure, it makes it harder to work out and get better, but many players around the state do work and it can be done. Good exercise depending on the work, and the player will appreciate it later in life.

Things make it harder to achieve, but it is still doable.

Ummm...I think people would be surprised to learn that most of Trinity's team are just like kids at any other school. They work, many ride the bus or carpool. Personal trainers?

Originally Posted by Ram

Again, debatable. No money for coaches? Good volunteer coaches can be obtained. Is it easier? No. That is why some schools don't do it. Facilities? Beechwood and Highlands have bragged for years that they do not have good facilities. Have they found a way to be successful without spending money on facilities? Yes. Again, not the easy way, but it can be done.

If it were easy, everyone one would be doing it. But some do not want to do the work. People get mad at Highlands when they say they work harder. Maybe they do. I don't mean the team, I mean the program. Maybe the program works harder and does the things that others don't want to do.

Highlands facilities are worse than some grade schools, they do it through the players buying in to the tradition. They want to say they won state like their peers before. Beechwood used to be able to play the poor facilities card, but not anymore. They have a awesome field and a new fieldhouse/weightroom that rivals some colleges. Everyone brings up NewCath and Holy Cross like they have dominated forever. NewCath has 4 state titles and Holy Cross one.


As for most influential changes since 2002 I would have to go with field turf. No more rainouts.

The most negative change by far has to be the addition of 2 classes. They should of consalodated to 3 classes.

Originally Posted by Ram

I am truly not trying to be insensitive to the challenges that you mention, but to be honest they are just excuses. Does having a car, not having to work, and having a personal trainer make it easier to be successful? Maybe. But success can be achieved without those things. We live in a world were virtually anything is possible.

Personal Trainer: Sure, it's nice, but players can run and train without one. In fact, I could argue that a player running on his own and doing non-convential workouts with ropes, chains, and sacks of horse feed would be in better shape then those going to a personal trainer.

Car: Sure, it's nice and makes traveling (and dating) easier, but a player can ride a bike to practice. Now I do realize that some would have to travel quite a distance, but for most it is possible. I used to ride a bike to work 10 miles and it was a great workout and doable, not because I had to, but because I wanted to. This also goes with the trainer.

Having to work: Sure, it makes it harder to work out and get better, but many players around the state do work and it can be done. Good exercise depending on the work, and the player will appreciate it later in life.

Things make it harder to achieve, but it is still doable.

If there are five kids across the state of Ky who do this, I want to meet them. Times have changed, my friend. Nobody walks 10 miles to school, uphill both ways, anymore. Let's live in the now, and the now says this is folly.

Originally Posted by Jim Schue

If there are five kids across the state of Ky who do this, I want to meet them. Times have changed, my friend. Nobody walks 10 miles to school, uphill both ways, anymore. Let's live in the now, and the now says this is folly.

My point exactly. They may not do it, but they could. The Highlands fans have talked about their players riding bikes to practice for the workout alone. Maybe they do work harder.

Originally Posted by Ram

My point exactly. They may not do it, but they could. The Highlands fans have talked about their players riding bikes to practice for the workout alone. Maybe they do work harder.

If you know anything about Ft. Thomas, it's not very spread out. A bike ride to practice in Ft. Thomas would be very different from one to a school in Pike County, for example. Heck, HHS kids can probably take the TANK bus, if necessary.