A Totally Reasonable Playoff Proposal

Page 5 of A few weeks back in another thread I posted an idea for a new playoff proposal. Modeled after a version used by the state of Illinois, this plan is som... 85 comments | 5457 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #61
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    Well done, @gchs_uk9.

    I like every bit of it. Of all the proposed face lifts to our playoff system that I've seen/heard, this one might be my favorite.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLCat View Post
    I love this District idea where it isn't tied to classifications...

    Love it all, except the only thing I would even dare to suggest a change is incorporating the neutral field sites for the Semi's at the very least (maybe even the Region Finals).

    Regional Finals I could get on board with under the pre-tense that it would force teams to have to "schedule up" to improve their CPU ranking and reward as such, but at the same time not sure I want to trust such a valuable game for two teams who have won their way to that point based solely on what a CPU spits out,

    Semi-Finals I absolutely think should be hosted at a neutral site venue. With the Regional Finals and seeding at least there is some logic over who gets what may be a significant advantage and they have some control over it, when it comes to letting the year determine that I am not a fan though. Even in Semi-Final settings you may be looking at 4 hour bus trips to go play football.

    At the very least I would like to see a KHSAA approved neutral site venue for the Semi's... potentially capable of hosting multiple games... where that homefield advantage is minimized a good bit and it becomes a better measure of simply "who is better"

    We change this and I will sign up to be a lobbyist for this plan.
    So many programs (home and visitor) cash in some serious bucks off these Region and semifinals. No matter the distance. They both cash in (gates are split bt both schools after expenses paid to refs, all emergency personnel, clock keeper, ticket takers, etc).

    Also, I'm not so sure some of these small colleges would be big enough to take on the crowds. Take Campbellsville U that doesn't have a visitor side (they do have some small end zone bleachers) and a home side that would be comparable to Lawrence County. Couple that with no track to stand around and you run into crowd issues.

    Same for Lindsey Wilson. Their home side really isn't all that big at all in terms of what it seats. The window dressing and architecture around it is nice, but the stands themselves aren't all that impressive in terms of capacity. They do have a track, but to my knowledge they don't allow spectators even at their games to stand around it (their visitor side is a common high school visitor side).

    If these places could cut the schools a cheap deal and not rob them, plus be a little lenient on allowing the crowds that would follow then maybe.

    Personally, I love those rounds of games being played at the home team's location. The crowds are always massive with everybody from both communities usually showing up PLUS the crowds from surrounding areas that have interest in it.

    If both schools agree to a neutral site then fine. Mandated? No.

    I remember in 1992 Paducah Tilghman and South Oldham hooked up in the 3A West Semis. The game was to be played at South Oldham who had all World running back Donnell Gordon (went onto play for both UL and U.K.). That whole week the weather had been crappy, so South Oldham opted to see if Tilghman wanted to play at Old Cardinal Stadium. Well, Tilghman had this guy by the name of Billy Jack Haskins playing QB for them and they were slinging it all over the yard, so OF course they took South Oldham up on that idea. Had South Oldham not chosen to move the game and use their home field advantage in more ways than one (they pounded the rock with Gordon) , South Oldham probably wins? Instead. The game was moved to the turf, PT wins.

    It was pretty common practice back in the day for Louisville area teams to use old Cardinal Stadium for those rounds. That 92 game, T and X almost always used to play there. 91 X and North Hardin semis come to mind as well as the 94 T and North Hardin semis. (Truth be told, I'm not even sure both teams had to agree. It was maybe just the home team).

    I say bust it as is.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Doyle View Post
    So many programs (home and visitor) cash in some serious bucks off these Region and semifinals. No matter the distance. They both cash in (gates are split bt both schools after expenses paid to refs, all emergency personnel, clock keeper, ticket takers, etc).

    Also, I'm not so sure some of these small colleges would be big enough to take on the crowds. Take Campbellsville U that doesn't have a visitor side (they do have some small end zone bleachers) and a home side that would be comparable to Lawrence County. Couple that with no track to stand around and you run into crowd issues.

    Same for Lindsey Wilson. Their home side really isn't all that big at all in terms of what it seats. The window dressing and architecture around it is nice, but the stands themselves aren't all that impressive in terms of capacity. They do have a track, but to my knowledge they don't allow spectators even at their games to stand around it (their visitor side is a common high school visitor side).

    If these places could cut the schools a cheap deal and not rob them, plus be a little lenient on allowing the crowds that would follow then maybe.

    Personally, I love those rounds of games being played at the home team's location. The crowds are always massive with everybody from both communities usually showing up PLUS the crowds from surrounding areas that have interest in it.

    If both schools agree to a neutral site then fine. Mandated? No.

    I remember in 1992 Paducah Tilghman and South Oldham hooked up in the 3A West Semis. The game was to be played at South Oldham who had all World running back Donnell Gordon (went onto play for both UL and U.K.). That whole week the weather had been crappy, so South Oldham opted to see if Tilghman wanted to play at Old Cardinal Stadium. Well, Tilghman had this guy by the name of Billy Jack Haskins playing QB for them and they were slinging it all over the yard, so OF course they took South Oldham up on that idea. Had South Oldham not chosen to move the game and use their home field advantage in more ways than one (they pounded the rock with Gordon) , South Oldham probably wins? Instead. The game was moved to the turf, PT wins.

    It was pretty common practice back in the day for Louisville area teams to use old Cardinal Stadium for those rounds. That 92 game, T and X almost always used to play there. 91 X and North Hardin semis come to mind as well as the 94 T and North Hardin semis. (Truth be told, I'm not even sure both teams had to agree. It was maybe just the home team).

    I say bust it as is.
    I dont know if you saw my proposal for updating the playoffs with the current 6-class system as in place, but one of the things I specifically was calling for was a bit controversial, but something i think in the long run would be worth it.

    Under my system (which seeded Semi-States and took 3 teams per current Districts) I called for neutral sites at Rounds 3 and 4 and proposed copying the current Georgia High School Association's plan for collecting money. Essentially the further you advance in the Georgia playoffs the more the admission increases.

    Now I know a lot of people would be up in arms about potentially paying 15.00 for a Semi-Final ticket... but what you get out of that is it allows for A)No team, Class A thru AAAAAA to lose money by qualifying for the playoffs or being asked to travel B) It frees up funds to make Championship Weekend the big deal it should be and opens up potential leverage for the games to be broadcast live on PBS with high end production value (The Georgia Championships are masterfully done for example) C) It gives you a pot so the KHSAA can control neutral sites and have leverage over multiple locales to assure that the cost of operation stays low


    The biggest misconception with neutral fields is that they have to be college stadiums. They do not. Especially in a State like Kentucky where there simply are not many larger College programs. Other High Schools can serve as neutral sites, in fact a Henry Clay or a Bryan Station has nicer venues than several of the smaller colleges.

    It all begins with forming a list of pre-approved neutral sites ahead of time. The reward for doing so is you get compensated for the expenses, you get a set stipend for being a host school (built in to the admission pot mentioned), and you get concessions (and for that matter the more industrious could sell designated tailgate parking spots or permits for additional revenue). It is not intended for these schools to get rich, but for programs that have a great venue and want a chance to put some money in their school's budget this becomes a worthwhile venture to become a pre-approved neutral site and subsequent potential host site.

    With the list of neutral sites approved the KHSAA can then assign the 12 Semi-Final sites (the thought process is some of these could be capable of hosting on Friday and Saturday if needed).

    With GCHS's plan, as I said, I am not as concerned with the Regional Finals being hosted at a neutral site unless it is deemed the school set to host does not have the facilities, field conditions, or seating that is satisfactory to assure a level playing field condition. There is still a merit to "having earned" that homefield so I can sign off on that.

  4. #64
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    And here is a hypothetical to go along with why I think the neutral site is necessary at the Semi's

    Let's imagine that Hancock County with Travis Atwell is playing in this 6 class system.

    Hancock County is not a great program, and this is that one special team that everything comes together and they have a shot at a State Title.

    Let's imagine though that it is an even year and they have to truck it all the way to Somerset to play the Briar Jumpers in the Semi's. Not only that, but Somerset has played every game at home in a suspiciously wet November and their field is a swamp. Chewed up, deep pockets of mud, and barely distinguishable lines. Even better? The forecast for Friday is lots of rain, maybe even freezing rain, mixed with cold and wind. The pass and QB scramble heavy Hancock team will do their best, but the Power I happy Somerset team is welcoming the weather.

    We all like to say "Both teams had to play in the conditions" and certainly there is truth to that, but there is absolutely no denying that at the very least field and weather conditions alter the way the way the game is handled or called. It shifts the norm and amplifies mistakes and the value of a "bounce" going one way or another. There is also something to be said about a three hour drive (four hours by bus) and how it effects a team's preparation. Does it cause them to lose games? Absolutely not, but when you break the norm and you have a few kids behave a little differently or acclimate a little slower, while the other team is enjoying "just another home game", that could produce a couple of those "bounce" situations that do change the trajectory.

    That is potentially a very large shift on the whole when the only reason a team gets the advantage over the other is because it is an even year and not an odd year.

    Now if you want a quick way to move me to the middle I will concede it.. a little bit of a corner cut.

    What if instead of assigning home field based off the even/odd we find a way to assign it based off performance? What if there was a metric that was deviated based off of Hancock County's performance over the season that insinuated that Somerset in this example "Earned the right" to play at home? Now I am listening and potentially willing to drop the neutral site requirement.

  5. #65
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    Will never fly and doesn't need to unless the (home) team(s) want to do so.

  6. #66

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    221 teams, six classes.

    Equally divide the 221 teams into five 37 team classes and one 36 team class. The 36 being Class A.

    Then do the rankings of each class and pare down the bottom teams in each class to reach the 32 team/class playoff. Eliminates punishing small schools for being small.

    Regarding playoff venues. There definitely should be minimum standards to be met. Especially with regard to visiting team facilities. On site locker rooms, rest rooms, a place inside for half-time. Minimum standards for field conditions as well.

  7. #67

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    Well done, @gchs_uk9.
    My only tweak is the neutral site and try to fix the 6A by making it either the 24 with a bye for the #1 seeds or just go with the 16 team. Here is my rational - what seed level of team can win a game in the current 6A listing on the posting earlier? I submit that no #5 can win so lets push Fern Creek, Eastern and other 5,6,7,8 seeds down to the 5A and let them have some success and a chance to win the state. Those 16 teams make 5A better and trickle down to 4a, 3a, and 2a and 1a.
    I grew up with Ohio Computer and really if you don't win, you don't make it to the playoffs. Cincinnati St Xavier was 4-5 when they played Louisville St Xavier and had to win to get in. (They won last week too in the 1st week of playoffs and get Colerain this week) A good site is joeeitel.com which tracks the 1st level points( wins) and 2nd level points( wins by opponents you've beaten) for every team in the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gchs_uk9 View Post
    With schedules already made for the next two-year cycle, implementing before the 2019 season would probably be unrealistic. But I have been impressed with the number of people who think this would be a positive for Kentucky football.
    You got this done yet? This is the week of change and taking things back. Let's take back football!!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by All the Right Moves View Post
    You got this done yet? This is the week of change and taking things back. Let's take back football!!


    I haven't prepared anything official.

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    Still like it a lot; but, would like Regional final matchups rotated on a preset schedule annually. 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4 in year #1; then 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 in year #2; and then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in year #3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldercoach View Post
    Still like it a lot; but, would like Regional final matchups rotated on a preset schedule annually. 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4 in year #1; then 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 in year #2; and then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in year #3.
    I don't see why someone like Pikeville and Mayfield should randomly have to drive that far every 3 years.

  12. #72
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    Alright, it has been a week. I put forth this proposal and have been surprised and pleased by all the positive comments. Even those who disagreed did a nice job of making alternative suggestions. I know some (many) of you reading this are coaches, administrators, etc. If I were betting, I'd say a few from the KHSAA have probably read it too (they might not admit it).

    My question now is whether this is feasible? Do you think the KHSAA would be willing to hear this? Do you think there is much call for change/improvement in the coaching/administration ranks (sorry fans, the only places it really matters). I would be prepared to make this into a formal presentation but not just for the heck of it.

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    This is a very good piece sir. I will have to do some more investigation into though before jumping on board. Initially, I look at the traditional powerhouse schools and see where they fall. That may very well be the drawback. I feel as if the 6 class system is great with some tweaks. Theoretically, one would want the 6A class to be full of the power teams that can compete on that level (BG for instance would be one example of a school needing to be in 6A). Parity among the schools in each class is the ultimate goal I believe in order to increase the viability of football in Kentucky. Would schools in each bottom tier of their current class be more apt to compete in a class lower than the one they are currently in?

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldercoach View Post
    Still like it a lot; but, would like Regional final matchups rotated on a preset schedule annually. 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4 in year #1; then 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 4 in year #2; and then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in year #3.
    The computer could easily re-seed the semifinals as far as i'm concerned as long as region 1 and 4 don't ever have to drive to play each other. This state is an east-west state geographically and logistically for travel.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iam4thecats View Post
    The computer could easily re-seed the semifinals as far as i'm concerned as long as region 1 and 4 don't ever have to drive to play each other. This state is an east-west state geographically and logistically for travel.
    Yep

    Not only is it an East-West State, but some of your strongest traditional powers are at the more extremes of each of those distances as well.

    In terms of the true geographical center of our State there simply are not a ton of dominant teams surrounding that Taylor, Marion, Adair County region

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