4A #3 South Warren at Warren Central

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  1. #1
    DragonFire's Avatar
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    4A #3 South Warren at Warren Central

    Let's be honest - you already know who is winning this. A year ago the Dragons showed some fight against South Warren, but they ended up just like all the rest in a 38-6 loss to the Spartans. This year, Warren Central enters off of two straight shutout losses, allowing 97 straight points, and have been shutout in four of their eight games. Their loss to Warren East last week assured them of missing the playoffs for the first time since 1998, and their latest in murderer's row is #3 South Warren. The Spartans will make their first game visit to Warren Central's turf field (they practiced there at one point last year), carrying a 6-2 record and a two game winning streak following their district loss to Franklin-Simpson. They are locked into the 2 seed, and will look to win this game as smoothly as possible, with no injuries as they are almost the healthiest they've been all season. South Warren isn't nearly as strong on defense as last year, but still average a victory of nearly 14 PPG, and their two losses are by a combined 7 points to the #2 team in 4A and #3 team in 5A. They are still quite potent, and will look to continue that momentum here.
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    Here's hoping that SW puts up 100 on WC simply for the fact that John Ford has had to miss his senior season. Let's be honest. If Ford had moved and transferred to any school besides SW he would have been eligible immediately. Reynolds that transferred to Greenwood openly admitted that he transferred because he wanted to win in an interview but he was ruled eligible.

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    WC principal has put on quite the dog and pony show for the KHSAA Board of Control.

    The Warren County School Board and the administration shoulder a heavy blame for this ongoing fiasco.

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    Stevenson and RC are completely to blame. 4 coaches in 4 years. Spend millions of dollars on new facilities but fire your coach in the spring leaving the program in more of a tail spin then it already was and yet you want to fight a kid who just wants to play football and get away from the fiasco you created. Shame on Warren Central and the WC Board!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PantherPride2020 View Post
    Here's hoping that SW puts up 100 on WC simply for the fact that John Ford has had to miss his senior season. Let's be honest. If Ford had moved and transferred to any school besides SW he would have been eligible immediately. Reynolds that transferred to Greenwood openly admitted that he transferred because he wanted to win in an interview but he was ruled eligible.
    I'm sure the kids that transferred to East, Greenwood, and Franklin-Simpson would disagree with you. I still don't know how Chauncey Greer got eligible, but he's one of the only ones who made it. I think some of the lower level kids who had not played varsity (like JoTavien Bunton - plays at South) got eligible. But Ethan Blomeier (East), Christian Potter (Greenwood), Steven Starks (Franklin-Simpson), etc. are ones I can name off the top of my head that went other places besides South and failed to get eligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFire View Post
    I'm sure the kids that transferred to East, Greenwood, and Franklin-Simpson would disagree with you. I still don't know how Chauncey Greer got eligible, but he's one of the only ones who made it. I think some of the lower level kids who had not played varsity (like JoTavien Bunton - plays at South) got eligible. But Ethan Blomeier (East), Christian Potter (Greenwood), Steven Starks (Franklin-Simpson), etc. are ones I can name off the top of my head that went other places besides South and failed to get eligible.
    Come on DF don't let facts get in the way of a good tirade.

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    Also, I might add, it reflects poorly on you to advocate running up the score on a bunch of kids who, like Ford, just simply want to play football, and are neither responsible for the state of things at Central or for John Ford not getting eligible. You can be mad at Stevenson - I am too. You can be mad at the board - I am too. But scoring 100 would not prove any point to either of those bodies. It would merely accomplish demoralizing a bunch of players that are merely fighting to keep their program alive and their fight to enjoy the game.

    Lastly, and this surely won't be a popular opinion with you, had the guys who transferred stayed at Central, I believe they would have fared at least as well as I already expected them to with or without Clay. I suggested last season before any of this went down that they might go winless. But they would have been much more competitive, and who knows - maybe they could have pulled out a win. While I understand the frustration of the players and the parents, and don't outright blame them for looking for a different situation, the program would never have been in any danger of not fielding a team without their desire to transfer. They would not have been in any worse shape playing under the current coach than they would have the previous coach - and they'd have all played.

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    How many of the other kids you mentioned, actually moved into the district of the school they transferred to? I don't know the answer so I'm asking. Ford did. Maybe the KHSAA should have considered the predicament that Warren Central put these kids in the last 4 years before ruling them ineligible. It's easy to say that they should have just stayed until it is your kid in that situation. And if those other kids did indeed move into the districts they transferred to then they should have been ruled eligible as well. Reynolds became eligible almost immediately. How is his situation different from the others?

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    I'm of the opinion that all who transferred should sit out a year, unless they moved to the school district they want to play in. Life is not always fair. You can't run away from some things. If they were really team players, they would have stayed with the program. JMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Adoptee View Post
    I'm of the opinion that all who transferred should sit out a year, unless they moved to the school district they want to play in. Life is not always fair. You can't run away from some things. If they were really team players, they would have stayed with the program. JMO.
    Ford did move. Maybe some of the others did as well. Easy to say, stay and be a team player but their admin put them in a terrible situation. If you were at a job and had 4 different bosses over 4 years and the environment wasn't good would you stick around and be unhappy just to be a team player or take an opportunity at a new job in a new town if possible?

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    The KHSAA doesn't have a rule about you moving to a better "opportunity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iam4thecats View Post
    The KHSAA doesn't have a rule about you moving to a better "opportunity".
    Nope. They sure don't. Wouldn't matter if they did because they don't apply the rules they have across the board equally anyways. Tell me how they prove that a kid who moved into a school's district did so for athletic purposes. SW has some of the highest test scores in the area. Maybe he moved because of that. Maybe his parents found a house they liked and wanted to buy. Who knows. However the Reynolds kid gets on an interview and openly says he went to Greenwood because he wanted to win and nothing happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PantherPride2020 View Post
    How many of the other kids you mentioned, actually moved into the district of the school they transferred to? I don't know the answer so I'm asking. Ford did. Maybe the KHSAA should have considered the predicament that Warren Central put these kids in the last 4 years before ruling them ineligible. It's easy to say that they should have just stayed until it is your kid in that situation. And if those other kids did indeed move into the districts they transferred to then they should have been ruled eligible as well. Reynolds became eligible almost immediately. How is his situation different from the others?
    On the subject of moving, I do not know how many, or if any, did. I think Greer did, and he probably managed to get in before the flood, and that's why he's eligible. That's pure speculation on my part.

    But, many people seem to be under the impression that a move is a slam dunk. That is folly. It may feel that way because the KHSAA often maddeningly operates as if that is the case, but it is spelled out EXPLICITLY that if the change is motivated in whole or part by a desire to participate in athletics that one of the exceptions to the transfer rule (which moving is) would not be considered valid. I posted on this before:

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFire View Post
    While I agree that he probably will be ruled eligible - mostly because I don't think the KHSAA has generally proven to have the stomach to rule many ineligible - the notion that a bona fide move is all you have to do to assure yourself of eligibility is a fallacy. Bylaw 6 can be viewed here (http://khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/20142015/bylaw6.pdf), but specifically:

    Sec. 3) SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS RESULTING IN DENIAL OF WAIVER
    Satisfying of one of the exceptions (Section 2, a through i) shall not be considered valid and a waiver of the period of ineligibility shall not be granted:

    e) if the change in schools is motivated in whole or part by a desire to participate in athletics at the new school;


    (There are other restrictions, but that is by far the most pertinent to this discussion.)

    The Section 2 that is referenced is where the Bona Fide Change In Residence is noted as a discretionary exception for a waiver in the eligibility rule. It is quite clear why Ford, and indeed pretty much all of the Dragons who have left, are at the schools they've gone to, and it is that exact reason spelled out there. And that's why he hasn't already been ruled eligible. If a move is all it took, then it would have been a slam dunk and would be done by now.
    The rules are very clear. Quoting directly: "Any student who has been enrolled in grades nine (9) through twelve (12) and has participated in any varsity contest in any sport at any school while maintaining permanent residence in the United States or a United States territory following enrollment in grade nine (9) and who then transfers schools shall be ineligible for interscholastic athletics at any level in any sport for one year from the date of last participation in varsity interscholastic athletics."


    "BONA FIDE CHANGE IN RESIDENCE- The period of ineligibility may be waived if there has been a bona fi de change in residence by the parents and student that precedes a studentís change of schools."

    And then reposting from my previous quote: "Sec. 3) SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS RESULTING IN DENIAL OF WAIVER
    Satisfying of one of the exceptions (Section 2, a through i) shall not be considered valid and a waiver of the period of ineligibility shall not be granted:

    e) if the change in schools is motivated in whole or part by a desire to participate in athletics at the new school;


    I know you probably don't think I sympathize with them. No, I can't give you the experience of feeling like this is happening to a child of mine. But I absolutely do sympathize with John and all of them. I am a Dragon and they were too - I wish they'd have remained so. I don't harbor ill will towards them because they felt the situation was too much to deal with, but what I just posted is explicit about this process. There is no doubt - ZERO - that every single kid who left Central this offseason after Clay was fired did so for the express purpose of playing somewhere else because they no longer wanted to play for Central. That was a choice both the parents and players made to take the risk they took. There is no provision for consideration of condition of the program to create an exception for an athletic move other than a complete cessation of the school program. I could be wrong, but I have suspected that the gamble that was being undertaken was that Warren Central would not be able to field a team, and therefore all those players would be free to leave. Or perhaps more recklessly, the belief was that a move would automatically grant eligibility. The former didn't happen, and the latter was incorrect.

    As for Willie Reynolds, honestly, I have no explanation for that situation. Like Greer, I believe he should have been ineligible. Another area where I sympathize with the players who left and were deemed ineligible is that the KHSAA is often very uneven in how they apply rules. Mostly, I believe what happened with Reynolds is that unless you had proof (like what he eventually said in the paper), you might not be able to prove that Willie left for athletics purposes. East was a young team that looked like they would continue progressing - and they have - and did not have a stigma around them. But when 8-12 kids up and decide to leave after another coach is fired and aren't particularly quiet about why, then it's a lot easier to nail down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PantherPride2020 View Post
    Nope. They sure don't. Wouldn't matter if they did because they don't apply the rules they have across the board equally anyways. Tell me how they prove that a kid who moved into a school's district did so for athletic purposes. SW has some of the highest test scores in the area. Maybe he moved because of that. Maybe his parents found a house they liked and wanted to buy. Who knows. However the Reynolds kid gets on an interview and openly says he went to Greenwood because he wanted to win and nothing happens.
    You are on a rant about 2 different things. Nobody on here is happy with WC admin or the KHSAA. That doesn't effect the fact that you were wrong about the number of people ruled ineligible, the number of people who didn't follow the KHSAA rules and most importantly that scoring 100 on the poor kids at WC trying to keep the program going is pointless and low class.

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    The kids at WC now play their tails off. Right now it's just not a good football team. Humiliating the kids is pointless...and damaging. Football is better everywhere when WC is good.

    I know the FS folks never expected Starks to be eligible. He will play next year. The thing is, according to the KHSAA rules, any of these kids might have been eligible for academic reasons. WC is a school in crises while Greenwood, SW, and FS are all doing extremely well. FS is the top school in the region this year.

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