University Heights 78 Hopkinsville 68

  1. #1

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    University Heights 78 Hopkinsville 68

    Kyky Tandy rebounded after a tough performance against Christian County with 36 and Jalen Johnson had 29 points for Hoptown.

    This was at Hoptown. First win for Heights at Hoptown since 2008.

    This just isn’t your typical Tim
    Haworth team. Considering all
    that they lose I’m sure
    The folks at Hoptown are concerned.
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  2. #2

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    Kyky Tandy is showing why he is a rising 4-star athlete game in and game out. He is worth the price of admission. See him in person if you can!

  3. #3

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    Have the folks in Hoptown grown impatient of the Haworth teams? Doesn't seem like they're getting the transfers they used to get and the players they have may not be developing to compete with the better teams in the region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSBballfan24 View Post
    Have the folks in Hoptown grown impatient of the Haworth teams? Doesn't seem like they're getting the transfers they used to get and the players they have may not be developing to compete with the better teams in the region.
    I am a UHA guy, and though unpopular with my fellow fans I can't critique the job Haworth has done from a strict basketball perspective. Now yes his act of being a "tough guy" and other ways he acts in public, but he's done a good job. I don't see how they could be tired of going to state 5 out of 6 times and being top 10 consistently over that time period. I know we have the Kentucky Basketball fan mindset where its title or bust every year, but one struggling season doesn't erase the success over his tenure. Im not a huge fan of Tim, but I think he gets way too much undeserved criticism.

    You walk in that gym and you see 4 region title banners from 1969-2003, the only ones they ever won. Then next to them you see 5 banners from Tim that he won in the last 6 seasons. He's also probably 1-2 seasons aways from being their all-time leader in wins. He hasn't won a state title, but a lot of great coaches around here didn't win either.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Region2 Hype Man View Post
    I am a UHA guy, and though unpopular with my fellow fans I can't critique the job Haworth has done from a strict basketball perspective. Now yes his act of being a "tough guy" and other ways he acts in public, but he's done a good job. I don't see how they could be tired of going to state 5 out of 6 times and being top 10 consistently over that time period. I know we have the Kentucky Basketball fan mindset where its title or bust every year, but one struggling season doesn't erase the success over his tenure. Im not a huge fan of Tim, but I think he gets way too much undeserved criticism.

    You walk in that gym and you see 4 region title banners from 1969-2003, the only ones they ever won. Then next to them you see 5 banners from Tim that he won in the last 6 seasons. He's also probably 1-2 seasons aways from being their all-time leader in wins. He hasn't won a state title, but a lot of great coaches around here didn't win either.
    Well Said Hypeman.

    Tim's issue is this. He wins. We all know that.

    But his "personality", let's call it, makes him the type of coach that when he doesn't win, it's REALLY hard to like him. This season is a great illustration of that. The issues they've had within their program wouldn't be nearly as "bad" if he was dominating the region/district. Most agree that he has the most talented and deepest roster in the region, but he finished a clear 3rd in the district and they don't have much coming back.

    So the folks around Hoptown who have "turned the other cheek" because he was winning are circling like hawks...

    He's got 3 major issues.

    1. No matter when he was winning or when he wasn't, some VERY talented kids never even got close to making it to even a NAIA college basketball court. There is a perception and perhaps a bit of a reality around the program that he isn't helping kids make sure that they are doing what they need to do to make sure qualify. There is also a perception that he wasn't willing to help kids get to the top aau programs. Sure, some of that is on the Guidance counselor and parents, but some of the complaints are valid. I won't get into details about specific kids, but that is starting to hurt his "pipeline" because most kids start with the dream of playing college ball. When there isn't a consistent track record of that then folks start to think about whether "winning" is worth not getting the exposure/help you need in order to make it to the next level. Some of this criticism is fair, and some isn't. But the perception is definitely out there.

    2. Discipline - The Shorty Cager situation is well documented but there are other private (they should be because they are juvenile issues) issues that have shown him and his program in a very bad light. There is a perception that kids would be disciplined in other programs don't have anything said to them in his program. Some even say he enables some of the in school/out of school behavior by the kids. This is really hurting him with the "blue bloods" in the Hoptown fanbase. Those folks worshiped the ground he walked on when these issues weren't as numerous and when he was winning. Now that he's losing those folks are digging deeper and from what I understand aren't happy with what they are finding. Again, some of this is perception.

    3. His "big personality" was great when he was winning. He could say some outrageous stuff when he was winning. Now that he's losing, when he says the "crazy stuff" it really rubs folks the wrong way. For example, last night he blamed the loss "all on the kids." Then he followed up blaming the kids with "they're little boys, they aren't men". In all of my MANNNNY years of following sports I don't know that i've ever heard a coach so directly blame kids. Not even a college or nba coach. Those kinds of "outrageous" statements are commonplace for Tim. When you're winning regional championships you can say those things (for a while at least). But when you start losing the act wears out quick.

    Again, I give them a lot of credit for the wins they've had in the last few years. It's a heck of a run in a tough district. But even before the losing there were folks asking serious questions.

    Let's also be fair. County was significantly weaker at their head coaching position and UHA was breaking in a very inexperienced coach who seems to be hitting his stride now when Haworth started. Now you have a legend in Stovall at County and a much better roster and much more experienced and better staff at UHA. Tim had very good timing at Hoptown. The time when he started to hit his stride, County and UHA had pretty rough coaching situations.

    Losing the key guys they lose... I won't be surprised to hear that he's moved on.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentuckywildcat#1 View Post
    Well Said Hypeman.

    Tim's issue is this. He wins. We all know that.

    But his "personality", let's call it, makes him the type of coach that when he doesn't win, it's REALLY hard to like him. This season is a great illustration of that. The issues they've had within their program wouldn't be nearly as "bad" if he was dominating the region/district. Most agree that he has the most talented and deepest roster in the region, but he finished a clear 3rd in the district and they don't have much coming back.

    So the folks around Hoptown who have "turned the other cheek" because he was winning are circling like hawks...

    He's got 3 major issues.

    1. No matter when he was winning or when he wasn't, some VERY talented kids never even got close to making it to even a NAIA college basketball court. There is a perception and perhaps a bit of a reality around the program that he isn't helping kids make sure that they are doing what they need to do to make sure qualify. There is also a perception that he wasn't willing to help kids get to the top abau programs. Sure, some of that is on the Guidance counselor and parents, but some of the complaints are valid. I won't get into details about specific kids, but that is starting to hurt his "pipeline" because most kids start with the dream of playing college ball. When there isn't a consistent track record of that then folks start to think about whether "winning" is worth not getting the exposure/help you need in order to make it to the next level. Some of this criticism is fair, and some isn't. But the perception is definitely out there.

    2. Discipline - The Shorty Cager situation is well documented but there are other private (they should be because they are juvenile issues) issues that have shown him and his program in a very bad light. There is a perception that kids would be disciplined in other programs don't have anything said to them in his program. Some even say he enables some of the in school/out of school behavior by the kids. This is really hurting him with the "blue bloods" in the Hoptown fanbase. Those folks worshiped the ground he walked on when these issues weren't as numerous and when he was winning. Now that he's losing those folks are digging deeper and from what I understand aren't happy with what they are finding. Again, some of this is perception.

    3. His "big personality" was great when he was winning. He could say some outrageous stuff when he was winning. Now that he's losing, when he says the "crazy stuff" it really rubs folks the wrong way. For example, last night he blamed the loss "all on the kids." Then he followed up blaming the kids with "they're little boys, they aren't men". In all of my MANNNNY years of following sports I don't know that i've ever heard a coach so directly blame kids. Not even a college or nba coach. Those kinds of "outrageous" statements are commonplace for Tim. When you're winning regional championships you can say those things (for a while at least). But when you start losing the act wears out quick.

    Again, I give them a lot of credit for the wins they've had in the last few years. It's a heck of a run in a tough district. But even before the losing there were folks asking serious questions.

    Let's also be fair. County was significantly weaker at their head coaching position and UHA was breaking in a very inexperienced coach who seems to be hitting his stride now when Haworth started. Now you have a legend in Stovall at County and a much better roster and much more experienced and better staff at UHA. Tim had very good timing at Hoptown. The time when he started to hit his stride, County and UHA had pretty rough coaching situations.

    Losing the key guys they lose... I won't be surprised to hear that he's moved on.
    But the key word is his personality. Other coaches are more low key, but there have been discipline issues with other schools over the years players over the years. Those coaches is just smart enough to keep them in-house. And I have some good stories from my alma-mater that would make the public schools raise their eyebrows. But again, kids mess up.

    To the college situation, Stovall never had a kid sign division 1 until his 10th and final season at County. Keith Tandy of course played NFL, but that was more on Keith himself and Coach Whitaker getting him to WVU.

    And yes, Haworth was top dog. But you can't say that that 2015 Henderson team and the Frankie Smith coached Colonels were not really good teams the last 3 years. And let's not forget that when Marty Cline left UHA is when Stovall began his run of dominance in the region...HHS and UHA don't have great coaches during those times either. (Though Randy McCoy is VERY underrated)

    I'd also like to point out that I can't even recall the last Hopkinsville Tiger player to sign Division 1 in the last 20-30 years. Definitely not since 2000. There also hasn't been a football player sign D1 at HHS since Curtis Pulley. So it's not like D1 athletes (outside of baseball) are just walking down the halls.

    To get players to play college basketball, you have to have kids that are special talents. Maybe some signed and didn't last, but 90% maybe more of kids who go NAIA quit after maybe a year. Again, that's not a Tom Haworth issue.

    Being the District 8 need I am(haha) I tried to research where the kids are playing now. I believe Jordan Majors is at a good Division 2 school and is a class act on and off the court. Josiah Patton. Qualis Matlock and Tra Edwards both graduated 3-4 years ago and are still playing college basketball. Darius White was playing NAIA ball until his college closed and sent him home. CJ Hennagan is playing D2 basketball. Josiah Patton was playing Juco this season. Kourtney Ware is in his 2nd year of juco.

    And there may be more I missed, but it seems like that's several kids he's gotten to play college basketball. Some didn't make it, but again I can name off several Stovall players who didn't make it either.

    I don't want to be a Haworth apologist, because I know why he isn't liked and understand. But it's similar to the critiques on Calipari. And no I'm not comparing the two at all. But, all the time I hear that Cal wins because he has good recruits or he racks up wins in the weak SEC or he doesn't know X's and O's or he lets his players like Rose/Camby run wild. And people are quiet about it when Kentucky wins, but when Kentucky is struggling like this year you hear people say "Cal's 1 and done act must be over and the fans have to be tired of it because it isn't working". And of course, Calipari's personality makes people hate him too.

    Is Haworth the best coach in the state? No, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great coach. I'd take him at UHA in a heartbeat and I know every other team in region 2 other than CCHS would trade for him in a heartbeat. You are what your record says you are, and HHS isn't good his year but Tim's overall record says a lot.

  7. #7

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    Tim is a super guy . My nephew played for the 2015 Henderson County team, after the semi final game when Hopkinsville beat them Coach Hayworth offered his assistance in helping him find some colleges to possibly play for and offered for him to come down and work out with his seniors on weekends. Thanks Coach in my opinion you are a class act.

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