BluegrassPreps.com Boys Basketball Top 20 (2/12/18) Discussion

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  1. #31
    MentschTrachtGottLacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsrule1972 View Post
    There are two teams in the 8th region that are better than Walton Verona in my opinion--Oldham County and Collins.
    Sorry, but there is nothing about Collins' resume (including their 1-4 mark in February) that tells me they are better than Walton Verona. What would you point to in order to support your point that Collins is better than they are?

    Luckily, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it will get settled (along with Oldham Co.) on the court in the 8th Region Tournament.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by True blue (and gold) View Post
    People who know and see a lot of basketball around the state.
    Good deal. Thanks

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by MentschTrachtGottLacht View Post
    Sorry, but there is nothing about Collins' resume (including their 1-4 mark in February) that tells me they are better than Walton Verona. What would you point to in order to support your point that Collins is better than they are?

    Luckily, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it will get settled (along with Oldham Co.) on the court in the 8th Region Tournament.
    Well let's see. You mentioned the month of February. Here is who Collins has played:

    St. X Lost by 8 (just upset Fern Creek)
    Bullitt East lost by 8 (has played several of the top teams in the 6th region close)
    Oldham County lost by 3
    Desales Win
    Doss lost by 4 in overtime (top team in 6th region)

    Walton Verona has wins against these teams in Feb.
    Williamstown
    Grant County
    Trimble County
    Lloyd Memorial
    St. Henry

    Walton Verona's schedule alone is enough to give me doubt. Pretty weak. I would argue that Collins has played the top schedule in the state. They are bound to be beaten up and tired after playing murder's row. I'm a Spencer County fan so don't think I'm a homer for Collins, but they have more weapons than any team in the 8th region AND have played the top schedule so that boads well for them in the playoffs. Finally when you look at common opponents Collins lost in overtime to Doss and WV lost by 20. Collins beat SK by 13 and WV beat them by 3. Gallatin County did beat Collins earlier in the year, but Collins was missing some key football players so that is a wash. I think this might explain my opinion a little better.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsrule1972 View Post
    Well let's see. You mentioned the month of February. Here is who Collins has played:

    St. X Lost by 8 (just upset Fern Creek)
    Bullitt East lost by 8 (has played several of the top teams in the 6th region close)
    Oldham County lost by 3
    Desales Win
    Doss lost by 4 in overtime (top team in 6th region)

    Walton Verona has wins against these teams in Feb.
    Williamstown
    Grant County
    Trimble County
    Lloyd Memorial
    St. Henry

    Walton Verona's schedule alone is enough to give me doubt. Pretty weak. I would argue that Collins has played the top schedule in the state. They are bound to be beaten up and tired after playing murder's row. I'm a Spencer County fan so don't think I'm a homer for Collins, but they have more weapons than any team in the 8th region AND have played the top schedule so that boads well for them in the playoffs. Finally when you look at common opponents Collins lost in overtime to Doss and WV lost by 20. Collins beat SK by 13 and WV beat them by 3. Gallatin County did beat Collins earlier in the year, but Collins was missing some key football players so that is a wash. I think this might explain my opinion a little better.
    Yeah WV schedule is pretty weak, King of the Bluegrass, Lex Cath tournament and all the way to the all A state championship. Should have scheduled tougher teams than Ballard, Mercer County, Ensworth Tenn (Powerhouse), Oldham County, Campbell County, Doss, Pendelton County, Mayfield, Lexington Christian. Soft. And remember we are talking and all A public school of 500 kids. Shame on them for pounding Trimble, Grant, Lloyd, St. Henry, Williamstown who are all either in their district or conference and had to be played.

  5. #35

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    How did they do against the higher level competition?? Collins was competitive in all of their's with a chance to win. Doesn't matter how big the school is when deciding where to rank them. I was asked to show how I could possibly compare their resumes. Well I think it's pretty obvious that there really isn't a comparison. Based on strength of schedule and performance against that schedule Collins has done a lot better. As mentioned earlier, we are getting ready to find out. Like it or not WV schedule is pretty weak compared to other contenders. Especially compared to Collins.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsrule1972 View Post
    How did they do against the higher level competition?? Collins was competitive in all of their's with a chance to win. Doesn't matter how big the school is when deciding where to rank them. I was asked to show how I could possibly compare their resumes. Well I think it's pretty obvious that there really isn't a comparison. Based on strength of schedule and performance against that schedule Collins has done a lot better. As mentioned earlier, we are getting ready to find out. Like it or not WV schedule is pretty weak compared to other contenders. Especially compared to Collins.
    Just glancing at this top 20 WV has beaten 2 of the 20. How many of the top 20 have Collins beaten?

  7. #37

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    I compared common opponents and it was a wash for Collins. If you haven't seen Collins play they have more weapons than anybody in 8th. Just a difference of opinion. I think if both are playing at their best WV would be in trouble. We shall see real soon.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsrule1972 View Post
    How did they do against the higher level competition?? Collins was competitive in all of their's with a chance to win. Doesn't matter how big the school is when deciding where to rank them. I was asked to show how I could possibly compare their resumes. Well I think it's pretty obvious that there really isn't a comparison. Based on strength of schedule and performance against that schedule Collins has done a lot better. As mentioned earlier, we are getting ready to find out. Like it or not WV schedule is pretty weak compared to other contenders. Especially compared to Collins.
    Still trying to understand how you get tougher than King of the Bluegrass, Lexington Catholic tournament and state all A tournament??

  9. #39

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    Just because you play in those tournaments doesn't mean you beat the top competition. The all A tournament is not on par with the other two. We were comparing Collins and WV. Collins last week lost in overtime to Doss. Doss is considered one of the top teams in the state and WV lost by 20 to them. If you go down the lineups Collins is a much stronger and deeper team. While WV played some good teams their schedule is LOADED with cupcakes. Didn't WV play through the losers bracket at King of The Bluegrass?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsrule1972 View Post
    Just because you play in those tournaments doesn't mean you beat the top competition. The all A tournament is not on par with the other two. We were comparing Collins and WV. Collins last week lost in overtime to Doss. Doss is considered one of the top teams in the state and WV lost by 20 to them. If you go down the lineups Collins is a much stronger and deeper team. While WV played some good teams their schedule is LOADED with cupcakes. Didn't WV play through the losers bracket at King of The Bluegrass?
    They lost 1 game in KOB, playing through the losers bracket got them playing Ensworth of Nashville, Palmetto FL and Mercer County with Faulkner who is D1. You realize after they lost the 1st game they kept playing teams who were winning after their first game as well right??


    Also, Cantrall and Litkenhous both make ratings off of SOS and wins in KY. Both ratings have WV above Collins but to each his own...

  11. #41

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    CovCath is finally clicking on all cylinders and are leaps and bounds better than they were a couple of months ago. Healthy too...

  12. #42

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    Compare the talent.
    Stanley or McKnight. I would take Stanley.
    Grubbs or feltner. Feltner
    Lay or turner. Close to a wash. I would take turner.
    Vail or Pardee. Another wash. I would take Pardee. Better defense and rebounding.
    Clinkenbeard or fort. Another hard call. I would take fort.
    Bench
    Shazier or Eades. Shazier
    Jones or kidwell. Jones
    Walton is deeper. Bashing either team or their schedule is silly. Both are good. Miles would have made walton better but he is out. I would rate the two teams even.

  13. #43

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    I would take McKnight. He might be the most important player on that team. A guard that can get you 20 rebounds.

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    Good to see Owensboro getting some love. When they are clicking they could be dangerous on a state level. That said, the 3rd got a brutal draw vs the 9th.

  15. #45
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    Okay @Cardsrule1972, here is a look at Walton-Verona and Collins as of February 13th:

    Collins 0-4 versus Top 20 opponents. Included in that is a 31 point loss to Ballard.
    W-V is 2-3 versus Top 20 opponents (which doesn't include a ROAD win at Campbell Co., who was ranked at the time of that game). Included in that is a 13 point loss to Ballard.

    They have played 7 common opponents:
    Collins is 4-3 with a total scoring margin of 29 points (4.14 per game).
    Walton-Verona is 6-2 with a a total scoring margin of 62 points (7.75 per game).

    Collins is 7-2 within the region, including a 3 point home loss to Oldham Co.
    W-V is 10-1 within the region, including a 2 point road loss to Oldham Co.

    You reference the football players missing when Collins dropped an 11 point game to Gallatin Co., but don't reference W-V has played nearly all of their season missing a HUGE piece of their puzzle. Even with that, they have two wins over Gallatin Co. by 20 and 4.

    This will all be sorted out on the court, as it should be, but you can't honestly look at these two resumes and say that Collins has had the better year, nor is the better team "on paper".

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