Should President Trump sign an Executive Order to avoid another United tragedy?

Page 5 of I just finished talking to an Airport Police Officer about this situation and in short the legalities are clear as mud. Since there are so many Airline... 96 comments | 1435 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #61
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    How many people knew this was a possibility?
    Fine print strikes again and until this story most of us would have fought like hell to stay on the plane. Especially after they offered a stupid voucher.

    The fault lies with the airline who sold more seats than capacity.
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  2. #62
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    Absolutely not. I would not get behind an EO on this. I feel a lot of people across this country are in pure over reaction mode on this. Which is becoming to common on all subjects. I have to many things to worry about for this to take up my time. Flying stinks if you don't know this you haven't flown enough.

  3. #63
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    This is insane. If incidents were occuring on a regular basis and chronic, then there may be cause to be as freaked out as everyone seems to be. But 1) this rarely happens and 2) the issue here that needs to be addressed is the customer service and decision making skills of front line employees.

  4. #64
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    How is it that we want big government out of our business and have spent decades mired in outrage over government's intrusion into corporate operations by regulation? Everyone needs to back away from the edge and stop further escalating the issue. Let it all get sorted out. If you don't like the service possibilities, fly another airline. But while overbooking occurs, THIS incident had nothing to do with that practice. The percentage of passengers denied boarding is negligible. If you want to reduce the chance it happens to you, fly an off peak time. It's not like we are all helpless.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcats View Post
    The fault lies with the airline who sold more seats than capacity.
    That is NOT what happened here.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Wouldn't it just be easier for airlines to have some sort of message that appears once a flight reaches capacity? Something that informs the customer as they're buying a ticket that they are buying a ticket for a flight that is overbooked, and as such they are not guaranteed a seat if those who purchased earlier are all present.
    Maybe that would make things clearer, but that is not what caused these passengers to be asked to give up their seats. And it no way addresses how front line employees chose to handle a situation

  7. #67

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    United is at fault. Once somebody is on a plane, they should not be removed. Surely United knew these employees needed to be on the plane before the paying customers boarded. Why wouldn't this be taken care of in the terminal before boarding? It seems very simple. You tell those 4 people they cannot board because they were bumped. If for some reason others don't show up for the flight, you let them on 1 by 1. It was wreckless for United to allow all passengers to board the plane in the first place. Surely this can be resolved by having a new boarding process for passengers that could possibly be bumped.

  8. #68
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    No. Tragedy? Mainly to United stockholders.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    That is NOT what happened here.
    Well, if they planned on sticking employees on there then they sold too many seats.

    The plane had a finite number of seats. How about they always leave four open for employees and call them stand by seats for somebody who knows what they are getting into.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    How is it that we want big government out of our business and have spent decades mired in outrage over government's intrusion into corporate operations by regulation? Everyone needs to back away from the edge and stop further escalating the issue. Let it all get sorted out. If you don't like the service possibilities, fly another airline. But while overbooking occurs, THIS incident had nothing to do with that practice. The percentage of passengers denied boarding is negligible. If you want to reduce the chance it happens to you, fly an off peak time. It's not like we are all helpless.
    Government is supposed to protect its citizens from abuse.

    As it stands now the Airlines (For Profit Corporations) can use Government Enforcers and Physical Force to increase their profits.

    Knowing you as well as I do @rockmom I am literally shocked about your stance on this issue.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by theguru View Post
    Government is supposed to protect its citizens from abuse.

    As it stands now the Airlines (For Profit Corporations) can use Government Enforcers and Physical Force to increase their profits.

    Knowing you as well as I do @rockmom I am literally shocked about your stance on this issue.
    I do not condone the use of force. I have stated that several times. And I have stated repeatedly I think this is a lapse in customer service skills, not a systemic abuse by airlines. Contrary to what apparently everyone believes about me, I am not a socialist, I'm not for big government and I am not for over regulation. I believe that businesses should be able to conduct their business largely without intrusion by the government. I do believe that predatory or abusive practices should be investigated. But I also know for a fact that the court of public opinion does not mean anything untoward was afoot. Sometimes there is a perfect storm, and crap happens, and the customer is made unhappy. It does not at all warrant the physical abuse Dr. Dao endured. HOWEVER the number of involuntary bumps is so small in relation the the number of successful trips, there is no way I see it a chronic problem, and certainly not a corporate abuse of anything.

    Customer service of any sort is a tough business. Sometimes the wrong decision is made for the right reason. The right thing to do is to train staff to make these right decisions and handle conflict with the right skillset. It isn't to vilify an entire industry for the wrong decision.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    I do not condone the use of force. I have stated that several times. And I have stated repeatedly I think this is a lapse in customer service skills, not a systemic abuse by airlines. Contrary to what apparently everyone believes about me, I am not a socialist, I'm not for big government and I am not for over regulation. I believe that businesses should be able to conduct their business largely without intrusion by the government. I do believe that predatory or abusive practices should be investigated. But I also know for a fact that the court of public opinion does not mean anything untoward was afoot. Sometimes there is a perfect storm, and crap happens, and the customer is made unhappy. It does not at all warrant the physical abuse Dr. Dao endured. HOWEVER the number of involuntary bumps is so small in relation the the number of successful trips, there is no way I see it a chronic problem, and certainly not a corporate abuse of anything.

    Customer service of any sort is a tough business. Sometimes the wrong decision is made for the right reason. The right thing to do is to train staff to make these right decisions and handle conflict with the right skillset. It isn't to vilify an entire industry for the wrong decision.
    Would you not consider overbooking a predatory practice? If everyone shows up, you're purposely screwing innocent paying customers over.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Would you not consider overbooking a predatory practice? If everyone shows up, you're purposely screwing innocent paying customers over.
    No one ever overbooks for the purpose of screwing the customer. Overbooking is done to ensure flights are fully booked. Overbooking is done because people cancel at the last minute or they don't show up at all. It happens eveyday, hundreds of times a day all over the world and no one ever notices because it all evens out after the cancellations and no shows. And it isn't just airlines. It is hotels, car rentals, restaurant reservations. And 99.99999% of the time it is no issue.

    And in this case it was not a case of impact due to overbooking. It was due to the need to move staff, and that is a whole different policy/practice. The decision wasn't based on overselling the flight at all. I think that is important , because I do agree the airline employee should have continued to try and find a volunteer, and done more to incent that outcome. I don't believe that the person who made the decision to call in the policing authority made the right decision.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    I do not condone the use of force. I have stated that several times. And I have stated repeatedly I think this is a lapse in customer service skills, not a systemic abuse by airlines. Contrary to what apparently everyone believes about me, I am not a socialist, I'm not for big government and I am not for over regulation. I believe that businesses should be able to conduct their business largely without intrusion by the government. I do believe that predatory or abusive practices should be investigated. But I also know for a fact that the court of public opinion does not mean anything untoward was afoot. Sometimes there is a perfect storm, and crap happens, and the customer is made unhappy. It does not at all warrant the physical abuse Dr. Dao endured. HOWEVER the number of involuntary bumps is so small in relation the the number of successful trips, there is no way I see it a chronic problem, and certainly not a corporate abuse of anything.

    Customer service of any sort is a tough business. Sometimes the wrong decision is made for the right reason. The right thing to do is to train staff to make these right decisions and handle conflict with the right skillset. It isn't to vilify an entire industry for the wrong decision.
    I hear everything you are saying but you are ignoring the Elephant in the room.

    When a customer refuses to give up their seat in this (or similar) situation what is the proper course of action for Airline? Authorities? And is Force ever permissible when the customer is non-violent?

    And while we are at it, just because the number is small is never a reason to allow anyone human being to be treated this way.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    No one ever overbooks for the purpose of screwing the customer. Overbooking is done to ensure flights are fully booked. Overbooking is done because people cancel at the last minute or they don't show up at all. It happens eveyday, hundreds of times a day all over the world and no one ever notices because it all evens out after the cancellations and no shows. And it isn't just airlines. It is hotels, car rentals, restaurant reservations. And 99.99999% of the time it is no issue.

    And in this case it was not a case of impact due to overbooking. It was due to the need to move staff, and that is a whole different policy/practice. The decision wasn't based on overselling the flight at all. I think that is important , because I do agree the airline employee should have continued to try and find a volunteer, and done more to incent that outcome. I don't believe that the person who made the decision to call in the policing authority made the right decision.
    But by overbooking you are purposely giving a promise of a room, flight, car, etc that you are well aware is not necessarily going to be available. So I book a room in a hotel, go to check in and am informed that the hotel was overbooked (which is done on purpose) and that my room is not available. There is absolutely no way to rectify that situation that doesn't screw the customer over.

    To me that's a predatory practice.

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