Obama DOJ going after Gibson Guitars?

Gibson CEO responds to raid... Mrs. Obama guilty of violating law also... Interesting.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K8ID...eature=related I'm quite sure that the first lady will not be investigated...

Originally Posted by Habib

It doesn't appear Taylor's executives donate to anyone. Takamine is Japanese. The WSJ article said that international movement of these guitars is tedious and difficult, but Takamine apparently does it regularly despite being a competitor to Martin.

After listening to the video cammando provided I agree with Juszkiewicz, it does indeed look like Gibson is being singled out. Question is why? As said in the video, if Gibson is committing a criminal act, then technically, so did Michelle Obama. Only the government with their overreaching bureaucratic abuse can create such a mess.

Originally Posted by Run To State

After listening to the video cammando provided I agree with Juszkiewicz, it does indeed look like Gibson is being singled out. Question is why? As said in the video, if Gibson is committing a criminal act, then technically, so did Michelle Obama. Only the government with their overreaching bureaucratic abuse can create such a mess.

I consider myself a conservative with moderate tendencies - including a soft spot for numerous environmental issues. It might also be of note that I am definitely not a fan of Barry or Michelle Obama. That being said, I think there are a lot of things that remain to be seen in this story as it develops before any real conclusions can be drawn. Some questions that I would ask are:

• If Gibson is being singled out (which I think it is), is it possible that the government knows something or is looking for something that they have not yet disclosed?
• Is it possible that Gibson is not being completely forthcoming about everything they're being raided and investigated for?
• If you look back, Michelle Obama gifted the Gibson Hummingbird to France's first lady in April 2009, and the first raid at the Gibson factories wasn't until November 2009...seven months later. Isn't it possible that the investigation hadn't been started at the time Michelle Obama visited France?

The Gibson CEO was told by the white house that their problem would "go away" if they used Madagascar labor instead of American labor... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...r-labor-audio/ Obama is good at creating jobs in other countries.

Gibson Guitar acknowledges exotic wood violation - Businessweek

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Federal prosecutors on Monday announced a deal to drop a criminal case against Gibson Guitar Corp. after the instrument maker acknowledged its importations of exotic wood violated environmental laws.

Nashville-based Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 penalty, forfeit claims to about $262,000 worth of wood seized by federal agents and contribute $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to promote the conservation of protected tree species.

So..........

"...announced a deal..."

With the heavy boot of the EPA on your throat - you will take the deal.

Why is the EPA in the import law business? .... Or in the drone spying business or....

Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard

"...announced a deal..."

With the heavy boot of the EPA on your throat - you will take the deal.

Why is the EPA in the import law business? .... Or in the drone spying business or....

Why do we monitor the products that are brought into our country?

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Why do we monitor the products that are brought into our country?

It looks like the Lacy Act was the law that was broken.

Lacey Act of 1900 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The original Act was therefore directed at the preservation of game and wild birds, making it a federal crime to poach game in one state with the purpose of selling the bounty in another.

So it was originally designed to protect animals and birds INSIDE the US.

From the article you posted.

Gruhn said the resolution of the Gibson case doesn't ease his concerns about the Lacey Act, which initially halted the trade in endangered wildlife goods, like ivory, but in 2008 added rare woods to the import ban.

"The problem is that virtually every instrument prior to 1970 contains Brazilian rosewood," he said. "Even on a Gibson LGO, which was their cheapest student guitar."

I wonder if Brazilian bamboo is considered rare or exotic? We considered it for flooring in a new house in 2006. From reading the text. It looks had we done that we may be in violation of the law since it appears there is no grandfather clause.

What would we expect? The EPA considers CO2 - the gas we all exhale on every breath - a regulated material. They literally regulate the air we exhaul.

Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard

It looks like the Lacy Act was the law that was broken.

Lacey Act of 1900 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So it was originally designed to protect animals and birds INSIDE the US.

From the article you posted.



I wonder if Brazilian bamboo is considered rare or exotic? We considered it for flooring in a new house in 2006. From reading the text. It looks had we done that we may be in violation of the law since it appears there is no grandfather clause.

What would we expect? The EPA considers CO2 - the gas we all exhale on every breath - a regulated material. They literally regulate the air we exhale.

There are many, many laws that are expanded over time. That's nothing new. Why do you have a problem trying to protect the environment?

To answer your question about bamboo - no, it's not rare or exotic. It's pretty common knowledge that bamboo is VERY fast growing. As a very fast growing natural building material, it is considered a highly usable renewable resource. It would clearly not have been in violation of the law. As someone who works in construction and deals daily with LEED certification, recycled materials, and FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) certified wood products, I can tell you that it's incredibly easy to come by responsibly harvested wood products. You virtually have to seek out wood that isn't FSC certified any more. Gibson was taking some truly dirty steps to forego the process and make their prophet.

You are correct. The EPA does regulate CO2 emissions. As the number-one cause of greenhouse effect, monitoring CO2 is certainly a responsible measure to take. Too much of anything is not a good thing. Sewage occurs naturally. Should the EPA not be monitoring what is done with sewage? Or would you rather they just let anybody dump it wherever they damn well please seeing as it's something that you naturally excrete?

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

There are many, many laws that are expanded over time. That's nothing new. Why do you have a problem trying to protect the environment?

To answer your question about bamboo - no, it's not rare or exotic. It's pretty common knowledge that bamboo is VERY fast growing. As a very fast growing natural building material, it is considered a highly usable renewable resource. It would clearly not have been in violation of the law. As someone who works in construction and deals daily with LEED certification, recycled materials, and FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) certified wood products, I can tell you that it's incredibly easy to come by responsibly harvested wood products. You virtually have to seek out wood that isn't FSC certified any more. Gibson was taking some truly dirty steps to forego the process and make their prophet.

You are correct. The EPA does regulate CO2 emissions. As the number-one cause of greenhouse effect, monitoring CO2 is certainly a responsible measure to take. Too much of anything is not a good thing. Sewage occurs naturally. Should the EPA not be monitoring what is done with sewage? Or would you rather they just let anybody dump it wherever they damn well please seeing as it's something that you naturally excrete?

Unless there were lots of man-made CO2 generators in the past CO2 is likely an effect and not a cause. The Vostok ice samples show elevated CO2 during all previous warm periods of history going back 400,000 years.

The issue is that if you make enough laws everyone eventually becomes a criminal. A 1900 law that was designed to protect domestic wildlife should not morph into a monstrosity that makes what was legal for decades illegal.

Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard

Unless there were lots of man-made CO2 generators in the past CO2 is likely an effect and not a cause. The Vostok ice samples show elevated CO2 during all previous warm periods of history going back 400,000 years.

The issue is that if you make enough laws everyone eventually becomes a criminal. A 1900 law that was designed to protect domestic wildlife should not morph into a monstrosity that makes what was legal for decades illegal.

So you have a problem with people outlawing things that were once legal?

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

So you have a problem with people outlawing things that were once legal?

Somewhat. The more things are illegal the more likely they are to be technically broken. Laws should be straight forward and as simple as possible. With a 108 year law being changed and manipulated and greatly expanded it seems its original intent is likely lost.