"Respect for the Office"

  1. #1
    Science Friction's Avatar
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    "Respect for the Office"

    I hear the phrase "respect for the office of President" mentioned often. Do you think respect for the office should be granted automatically or do you think it should be earned by the man who occupies the office? The following sums up my beliefs on this issue precisely and without qualification:

    " American history is as much mythology as it is history,
    especially when it comes to the presidency. President Obama is a noble and
    honorable and decent man.

    But to say he is the most noble man who has ever lived in the White House
    is not as great a compliment as it sounds.

    It certainly sounds like a hysterical exaggeration to a Trump voter. But
    the bar on presidential nobility and honor is lower than they think.

    There was never anything noble about owning slaves. George Washington
    became a slave owner when he was 11 years old.

    Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves and won
    the civil war. But he also played his part in the genocidal war against
    native American tribes.

    That is the forgotten part of the Lincoln presidency. That`s the forgotten
    part of American history. Native American blood on presidents` hands.

    There is nothing noble about genocide. But our presidential mythology
    insists that most of the 44 of them have been noble men, despite the fact
    that most of them tried to exterminate native American tribes.

    Most of them were racists. Many, if not most of them were anti-Semites.
    Donald Trump will take his place now among the racists who have lived in
    the White House.

    Our political culture has a method of normalizing everything and anything
    that happens in our democracy respect for the office.

    You will be hearing that a lot now respect for the office. You will be
    told that you should have respect for the office of the presidency.

    But respect should never be given automatically. The office of the
    presidency has committed crimes.

    That`s why Richard Nixon, the most recent recorded racist and anti-Semite
    in the Oval Office was forced to resign the presidency after an impeachment
    investigation.

    The office of the presidency has supported slavery. The office of the
    presidency has supported racist policies. The office of the presidency
    masterminded the genocide of native American tribes.

    There is nothing to respect in that office other than the man who occupies
    it. And no man should automatically be given respect.

    Respect must be earned. It must be earned or it is meaningless. Respect
    for the office is a phrase invented by politicians.

    It doesn`t appear in the constitution. Respect for the office is
    Washington`s empty meaningless phrase designed to turn us all into
    politicians.

    To make us all compromisers of our principles. Respect for the man, and
    unfortunately, it has only been men. Respect for the man who occupies the
    Oval Office must be earned.

    And I have never once in any of the public record of President Barack
    Obama`s life and his time as president seen anything about him as a person
    that is not fully deserving of respect.

    And I have never once in the public record of Donald Trump`s life seen
    anything that is worthy of respect.

    Our presidents have not been the giants that our mythology has turned them
    into. But they have all been bigger and better men in most ways than
    Donald Trump."

    --- Lawrence O'Donnell (11/9/2016)


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    There's a saying in the military: Respect the rank, not the person. You can obviously respect both. I respect the office of the presidency, however, I don't have respect for POTUS as a person. Personally Science, I'm of the mindset that people automatically get my respect until they lose it.

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    Getslow's Avatar
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    TL; DR.

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    I LOATHED Barack Obama as a president, his policies and his condescending personality drove me just as crazy as I'm sure Trumps combative nature is driving leftys like O'Donnell even crazier then they were before his election. That said had I ever been given the privilege of meeting him I can assure you I would have been honored, would have cherished the opportunity and would have treated him with the respect and deference due the office.

    1st impression is that O'Donnell (and possibly the originator of this thread) is trying to justify the clear lack of respect many on the left have shown for the current President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    TL; DR.
    I feel like I am driving down the road and I just saw this on somebody's license plate so now I am trying to figure out what it stands for.

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    From the beginning for the position but you can still not respect the man. Just show respect when you are talking about the man IN regards to the office.

    I respect that he is our fairly-elected President. As a man? No chance.

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    Getslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    I feel like I am driving down the road and I just saw this on somebody's license plate so now I am trying to figure out what it stands for.
    Too long; didn't read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    Too long; didn't read.
    Same here.

    Just going off the thread title, yes, I have the utmost respect for the office of the Presidency. Don't have to like or agree with what they do or who's in the office, but I will absolutely treat them in a respectful manner at all times.

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    I wish that our current President had as much respect for the position as we do. He's making a mockery of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mexitucky View Post
    I wish that our current President had as much respect for the position as we do. He's making a mockery of it.
    In what way ? What is being specifically done that is not respectful to the position and making a mockery of it.

    I think it's entirely possible that we have come out of the last decade roughly with some of the weakest leaders ever elected and because of that, cast an entirely different light on what we "think" respect for the office should be.

    The former POTUS was as disrespectful of the office and the constitution as any have ever been.

    The current POTUS has an incredible social acceptance curve to overcome partly in part because of the last administration's "do nothing" approach to controversial subjects.

    Enforcing the law, with no apologies, does not make a mockery of anything. No one said the President had to be apologetic or even polished in his delivery.

    It's important to remember that he was elected by the people that want something different, rather than the same....that doesn't make it wrong, but it sure can feel uncomfortable for some apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    Too long; didn't read.
    That's what Trump would say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdBrain View Post
    In what way ? What is being specifically done that is not respectful to the position and making a mockery of it.

    I think it's entirely possible that we have come out of the last decade roughly with some of the weakest leaders ever elected and because of that, cast an entirely different light on what we "think" respect for the office should be.

    The former POTUS was as disrespectful of the office and the constitution as any have ever been.

    The current POTUS has an incredible social acceptance curve to overcome partly in part because of the last administration's "do nothing" approach to controversial subjects.

    Enforcing the law, with no apologies, does not make a mockery of anything. No one said the President had to be apologetic or even polished in his delivery.

    It's important to remember that he was elected by the people that want something different, rather than the same....that doesn't make it wrong, but it sure can feel uncomfortable for some apparently.
    I'm not sure how people have formulated the theory that "People have issues with how Trump acts as President b/c Obama skewed the way that we see the position." What does my statement have to do with Obama??? People will jump to conclusions...it is getting worse by the day.

    In regards to mockery, I don't feel that Trump should be on social media. If he has a social media secretary, fine. The President should not be replying to critics and questions in that manner. It appears petty and gives me no confidence in his ability to handle crisis. Additionally, if he is going to use social media, make sure that his facts are air tight. He loses credibility almost every time he throws out a statistic. The position of President is ABOVE responding to the media in 250 characters or less. He comes across as caring too much about what is said about him.

    I was NEVER a fan of Obama. His constant need to appease in foreign affairs did not keep us out of any foreign entanglements. Rather, we have fallen further down the rabbit hole. Additionally, here at home, his apparent lack of commitment to law enforcement has contributed to the air of contempt that many in the public feel for the police.

    Trump, I fear, is an egomaniac with no patience for our political process. The travel ban is the prime example. People with GREEN CARDS and VISAS were turned away with no explanation. Funny that the countries that have supplied the terrorists that have attacked this country were conveniently left off? He conveniently overlooked the vetting process in place. He just cowtowed to those that backed him.

    As to those that wanted a change???? I would bet that it is a safe # to state that at least 30% of those who voted for Trump voted b/c he wasn't Hilary Clinton. They did not vote for Trump b/c they believed in him. Either way, one of the extreme sides of the spectrum was going to be appeased. I respect the office of President, but I am very suspicious of why Trump wanted the position. That said, he's better than Clinton.

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    I don't think DJT has someone behind them with their hand up his coat moving his lips telling him what to say as our last POTUS did. There are many days where I think that would help him. However, he is our President now, and the dis-information and crap that is being floated around NOT by him is even worse.

    Of course, as usual, there are a lot of people making money off of this. I am a proud member of a number of organizations that would be considered liberal as these issues are important to me. Since the election, the number of alarmist, Armageddon messages I have gotten from these groups has exploded as they need my action and my $$ to keep Trump from taking over the free world, killing sick children, minorities and gays and spreading gasoline across the planet and setting it on fire. Now, do I have concerns about his stance on issues important to me? Of course....however, I am not cutting off body parts because of it, nor did I when there were parts of Obama's platform that I could not accept.

    This too shall pass....make the best of it.

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    Science Friction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mexitucky View Post
    I'm not sure how people have formulated the theory that "People have issues with how Trump acts as President b/c Obama skewed the way that we see the position." What does my statement have to do with Obama??? People will jump to conclusions...it is getting worse by the day.

    In regards to mockery, I don't feel that Trump should be on social media. If he has a social media secretary, fine. The President should not be replying to critics and questions in that manner. It appears petty and gives me no confidence in his ability to handle crisis. Additionally, if he is going to use social media, make sure that his facts are air tight. He loses credibility almost every time he throws out a statistic. The position of President is ABOVE responding to the media in 250 characters or less. He comes across as caring too much about what is said about him.

    I was NEVER a fan of Obama. His constant need to appease in foreign affairs did not keep us out of any foreign entanglements. Rather, we have fallen further down the rabbit hole. Additionally, here at home, his apparent lack of commitment to law enforcement has contributed to the air of contempt that many in the public feel for the police.

    Trump, I fear, is an egomaniac with no patience for our political process. The travel ban is the prime example. People with GREEN CARDS and VISAS were turned away with no explanation. Funny that the countries that have supplied the terrorists that have attacked this country were conveniently left off? He conveniently overlooked the vetting process in place. He just cowtowed to those that backed him.

    As to those that wanted a change???? I would bet that it is a safe # to state that at least 30% of those who voted for Trump voted b/c he wasn't Hilary Clinton. They did not vote for Trump b/c they believed in him. Either way, one of the extreme sides of the spectrum was going to be appeased. I respect the office of President, but I am very suspicious of why Trump wanted the position. That said, he's better than Clinton.
    It will be obvious to most everyone four years from now that the bolded is simply not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Science Friction View Post
    It will be obvious to most everyone four years from now that the bolded is simply not true.
    In regards to mockery, I don't feel that Trump should be on social media. If he has a social media secretary, fine. The President should not be replying to critics and questions in that manner. It appears petty and gives me no confidence in his ability to handle crisis. Additionally, if he is going to use social media, make sure that his facts are air tight. He loses credibility almost every time he throws out a statistic. The position of President is ABOVE responding to the media in 250 characters or less. He comes across as caring too much about what is said about him.



    I was feeling this same way, and Mrs. doomer and I were discussing. She brought up the point that by doing this, he is bypassing the media, which he doesn't trust, and going directly to the people. I hadn't thought of it this way, but it makes sense. If you can't trust the messenger, shoot him, and deliver the message yourself.

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