Why can't the public school powers that be get this one through their thick skulls?

Page 22 of Originally Posted by rockmom I'll ask again, then...how is eliminating the private schools from post-season play going to change even one tiny thing ab... 364 comments | 14363 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshs81
    I don't know of any OH kids playing in NKY.

    Brossart, BTW, is not a school that is going to draw kids form multiple counties. THe only county I could see might be Pendleton.

    I'll trust BG when he says there are none from out of Campbell County. Heck , there are probably none outside of Southern Campbell County.
    Accurate points cshs!! Due to the lack of football, we have to work to get the kids from OUR feeder schools, much less looking for anyone elses, or OH & IN kids!! With Pendleton's recent hoops success, they probably won't venture up Rt. 27 either.
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  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Alumni 76
    Who is Bishop Brossart anyway? Im talking about the power house schools from NKY that always are in contention for everything. Does Bishop Brossart even have a football team? And i guess that those disadvantaged kids that lived in Cincinnati that decided to come over here and play football couldnt have went to a local school in Cincinnati to have played football or do none of the Cincinnati schools have football teams.
    We're a little disadvantaged Catholic HS in Alexandria, KY with about 400 students. No football, no powerhouse. I'm assuming you're talking about Newport Central Catholic (1-A) or Covington Catholic (3-A) who traditionally have very good football programs. I can safely say their kids are from NKY as well, but both have had significant problems getting past PUBLIC school powers Beechwood and Highlands the last several years!!
    Several posts you've made so far, and no facts yet?? You can't always believe "what you hear"!!

  3. #318

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    I was always tought you don't speak from ignorence. "It's far better to be silent and be thought a fool; than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

    The Catholic School System starts their football kids in the 2nd grade with flag football. Because of this they have one of the best feeder systems available. Maybe it would be a better idea if the public schools studied the way the Catholic School System does this in order to compete.

    The Catholic School System will assist any kid, male or female from K thru 12th grade with their tuition. However, it is faith based first, and very close to that, it is based on financial need second. If a kid happens to be a good athelete so be it. But the primary reason is based on the kids education; NOT his or her athletic. And never is the kid allowed a free ride. In every case the kid is required to pay something. The best a family could hope for is a 50% break. As well they or their family is required to do some kind of work for the school or parish to reimburse the school for the tuition break they received. It's called a donation of Time, Talent or Treasure.

    It won't happen overnight. There is no quick fix. Build a system that starts your youth at this early age and watch what happens. THis discussion becomes a mute point. The public schools have the access to all the funding they need. Pass a law to increase taxes and you got it covered. Unfortunately no boby will go for this because it not a quick fix. It's easier and faster to just kick out the kids the kids and their parents who have busted there humps to get were they are with blood, sweat and yes tears.

    Good luck to whoever your next victum may be.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdieCat
    I was always tought you don't speak from ignorence. "It's far better to be silent and be thought a fool; than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

    The Catholic School System starts their football kids in the 2nd grade with flag football. Because of this they have one of the best feeder systems available. Maybe it would be a better idea if the public schools studied the way the Catholic School System does this in order to compete.

    The Catholic School System will assist any kid, male or female from K thru 12th grade with their tuition. However, it is faith based first, and very close to that, it is based on financial need second. If a kid happens to be a good athelete so be it. But the primary reason is based on the kids education; NOT his or her athletic. And never is the kid allowed a free ride. In every case the kid is required to pay something. The best a family could hope for is a 50% break. As well they or their family is required to do some kind of work for the school or parish to reimburse the school for the tuition break they received. It's called a donation of Time, Talent or Treasure.

    It won't happen overnight. There is no quick fix. Build a system that starts your youth at this early age and watch what happens. THis discussion becomes a mute point. The public schools have the access to all the funding they need. Pass a law to increase taxes and you got it covered. Unfortunately no boby will go for this because it not a quick fix. It's easier and faster to just kick out the kids the kids and their parents who have busted there humps to get were they are with blood, sweat and yes tears.

    Good luck to whoever your next victum may be.
    Well honestly thank you for telling me how the private school system works cause i had to idea and giving me a little understanding on the view of the private school. All that i am trying to say is if "attracting" players with athletic ability is being done by not only the private schools but also the public schools then it needs to be exsposed because it is an unfair disadvantage to those who try to play by the rules.

  5. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdieCat
    I was always tought you don't speak from ignorence. "It's far better to be silent and be thought a fool; than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

    The Catholic School System starts their football kids in the 2nd grade with flag football. Because of this they have one of the best feeder systems available. Maybe it would be a better idea if the public schools studied the way the Catholic School System does this in order to compete.

    The Catholic School System will assist any kid, male or female from K thru 12th grade with their tuition. However, it is faith based first, and very close to that, it is based on financial need second. If a kid happens to be a good athelete so be it. But the primary reason is based on the kids education; NOT his or her athletic. And never is the kid allowed a free ride. In every case the kid is required to pay something. The best a family could hope for is a 50% break. As well they or their family is required to do some kind of work for the school or parish to reimburse the school for the tuition break they received. It's called a donation of Time, Talent or Treasure.

    It won't happen overnight. There is no quick fix. Build a system that starts your youth at this early age and watch what happens. THis discussion becomes a mute point. The public schools have the access to all the funding they need. Pass a law to increase taxes and you got it covered. Unfortunately no boby will go for this because it not a quick fix. It's easier and faster to just kick out the kids the kids and their parents who have busted there humps to get were they are with blood, sweat and yes tears.

    Good luck to whoever your next victum may be.
    You apparently don't understand how school taxes work.

    First of all there is limit on the increase in revenue from year to year, so you can't all of a sudden see a huge increase.

    Secondly, if you decide to increase more than the limit it is subject to a recall vote by the public (as is your seat on the board of ed.)

    Lastly, taxes are limited by the tax base. Go back and read the Frankfort post.

  6. #321
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    buzzy,

    Just because a school like Frankfort doesn't fully fund their athletic programs should not translate to eliminating the schools that do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguru
    buzzy,

    Just because a school like Frankfort doesn't fully fund their athletic programs should not translate to eliminating the schools that do.
    It is not a matter of choice. Frankfort relies on taxes and that is how we fund everything. We can't charge our district kids tons of money to come to school. "Free and appropriate."

    Private schools can raise tuition or often go to a sugar daddy.

    Your statement implies that we spend money on things other than sports - that is not true - we spend money on necessities and then we see what is left. Our district is really rather benevolent in the amount of support it does give our athletic programs, and I am happy to be a part of it. Some surrounding districts spend even less than ours - it is not a level playing field when trying to compete with the private schools.

  8. #323
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    There will ALWAYS be public and private schools. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY TO HAVE A LEAGUE MADE UP OF ONLY PRIVATE SCHOOLS, NOT TO MENTION THERE WOULD BE NO WAY TO POSSIBLE SEPERATE THEM INTO DIVISIONS BASED ON STUDENT BODY. Tennessee can do it because there are alot more schools in the state, if we did it here there would be divisions of 20-30 schools playing for a championship. I am firmly against seperation and i am all for playing the private schools.

    *I personally would LOVE to play Lexington Catholic before my time at Henry Clay is done.

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    I hope most people know that Lexington Schools don't care as much about Trinity and St. X as people may think. In Lexington there is one school that is border line hated and you know who I'm talking about.

    I don't live in Louisville and I don't know for sure but Trinity and St. X are disliked by some but most people are proud of them I guess. I understand Trinity and St. X because they dominate their sports and I would love for one of my family members to go their and be apart of that.

    But Lexington Catholic is a different situation. Guru has said on many occasions that schools need to quit moaning on schools with bigger enrollements and quit splitting up school districts. Like Ryle and Boone and Madison Central and Madison Southern for example.

    Splitting up does cause problems. That's the main reason why Lexington Schools go to such extremes against Lexington Catholic. They don't want a sixth school having to compete against Trinity, St. X and Male you need all the players you can get.

    Lexington Catholic is a good program but lets be realistic they haven't been that great in any of the two big sports. They have one boys basketball state title in the past 10 years, Lafayatte has the same. In football they have never won a region. Since 98 two Lexington 4A schools have made it to the finals beating Trinity along the way.

    Lexington Catholic is known as the school that waters down Lexington by some. Yea, Catholic is good and Henry Clay is good and Dunbar is good but none of them are on the top of their class. A lot of people think if Catholic wasn't their than they would compete better with Trinity and St. X. (I'm not saying this is true just a lot of people's opinion.)

    Lexington takes pride in their old school traditions and some hate Lexington Catholic. And by some I mean a lot of people in Lexington.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzy
    The "just work harder and build better facilities and hire better coaches" attitude is crap!

    Frankfort High School is a small urban high school in the state's capital city. It currently enrolls about 350 students 150 of them will play sports this year. We do not have a large tax base, so the money we collect in taxes has to go to facilities (schools) and personnel. We own two athletic facilities, a gym and football field. We have no solid weight room, no baseball/softball hitting facility, no track, no fitness center no whatever. The board of education gave us enough money for uniforms this year and pays for transportation and upkeep of the facilities we have. Now we can try as hard as we want, and we can work ouselves to death, but we will never have the facilities that LCA or LexCath has. Spending money on fitness centers and weight rooms is not as important to us as hiring new teachers. We have a small pot of money and not a long list of wealthy benefactors. We compete with what we have, and simply stated the playing field is not fair. Our kids cannot afford private coaches and strength trainers so our coaches work extremely hard to be all things to these kids. Why should they not have the ability to compete against people in like circumstances. They did not choose where they live or their economic situation - they are kids looking for a chance to be special and why shouldn't we give them every opportunity.

    Many of you would suggest that our kids simply accept scholarships from LCA and LexCath and go to those schools. Then what happens to the sense of community and rallying around your "home" team on Friday nights.

    Furthermore, to even begin to suggest that parents from the private schools do not recruit kids is crazy. A parent of a LexCath kid sat in a gym in Frankfort and talked to the parents of an 8th grader while they watched his brother play basketball for the local team. He talked about the great facilities and all the opportunities for the young man. Fortunately those parents were loyal to the local school and the kid stayed around and he is thriving - that is where most of the recruiting takes place, and it is not a violation b/c that parent is not an "officer" of the school.

    It is so easy to be one of the haves and to tell everybody just to work harder and spend more time on it - We work hard, but we started way behind, and we do have quality coaches.

    The KHSAA is not some weird organization the formed itself, it was created by the schools as a governance organization and the schools all vote on the by-laws. It will be the schools that change this rule, if it is changed and not the KHSAA.
    Some good points in here Buzzy. The problem that many fail to realize is that in the zeal to "get" some schools who many of the publics feel "bend" the rules; they are also hurting the majority of privates who are playing by the rules!! And if you think the only ones "bending" the rules are private schools, then your heads are buried DEEP in the sand!! Wake up guys--The easy way out is to ban all privates, then ban all open enrollment schools, then ban all who take out-of-district students, then ban all transfers, etc. Enforce the rules in place!! But then again--That would take work!!

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzy
    It is not a matter of choice. Frankfort relies on taxes and that is how we fund everything. We can't charge our district kids tons of money to come to school. "Free and appropriate."

    Private schools can raise tuition or often go to a sugar daddy.

    Your statement implies that we spend money on things other than sports - that is not true - we spend money on necessities and then we see what is left. Our district is really rather benevolent in the amount of support it does give our athletic programs, and I am happy to be a part of it. Some surrounding districts spend even less than ours - it is not a level playing field when trying to compete with the private schools.
    When private or other successful athletic schools want something they fund raise.

    The only sugar daddy is Uncle Sam.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    A true public school is required to educate a certain home school area of students. For example, Southern can not turn a way a kid that lives right down the street because he isn't smart enough or gets in to trouble. They have to take him because he lives in that home school area.

    Male, Manual, Butler not having a defined home school area in which they have to educate those kids, makes them to not be a true public school. They get to pick and choose students. They don't have to deal with discipline or kids not making the grade. They kick them out and then those kids have to go to their home school where they may act the same but won't and can't be kciked out.

    Thats the advantage they have. Thats why they are not true public schools.
    Any public school that has the power to kick a student out of their school because they are a discipline problem, or aren't keeping up with their grades, gives them a huge advantage in both academics and athletics. Of course, the privates have always had this advantage. I didn't realize some public schools also do that.
    I taught for three decades in a small, rural mountain public school. Our school would occasionally have a student transfer to Oneida Baptist Institute because the student got in trouble, or was upset with the school for some reason or the other, and their parent(s) decided to enroll them elsewhere. OBI, however, has a very strict discipline code, and doesn't put up with any nonsense. You do it their way, or it's the highway. In no time at all the student would be back at our little public school asking to re-enroll. They seemed to have discovered, to their dismay, that OBI would tolerate their disobedience for a while (with probations,etc), but a very short while, and then they were asked to leave. The option usually taken by them was to go back to the public school they had recently left. They had it better at Old Public High than they had realized, and surmised it's not as easy to be kicked out of the public as the private.
    Privates can be selective (if they want), most publics can't.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by letabrotherspeak
    Name those schools you speak of.
    Not naming schools. But lets say Player A is ineligble to play At School X and transfers to School Y and wins a regional title at School Y the following year.

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72birdman
    Which "community" does CovCath serve? How about NewCath?

    Are you saying that ONLY those students wishing a Catholic "education" attend these schools? What about those non-Catholic students that seem to excel at athletics?
    You do not have to be Catholic to want a Catholic Education. One of my best friends fits that category and didn't play 1 sport. Some people just like the atmosphere.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzy
    It is not a matter of choice. Frankfort relies on taxes and that is how we fund everything. We can't charge our district kids tons of money to come to school. "Free and appropriate."

    Private schools can raise tuition or often go to a sugar daddy.

    Your statement implies that we spend money on things other than sports - that is not true - we spend money on necessities and then we see what is left. Our district is really rather benevolent in the amount of support it does give our athletic programs, and I am happy to be a part of it. Some surrounding districts spend even less than ours - it is not a level playing field when trying to compete with the private schools.
    There are plenty of public schools who have Alumni who fund athletic program. I.E. Beechwood and Highlands turf for Football fields.

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