The R word: Who is accusing who? Surprise!!

Page 4 of Originally Posted by All Tell See, it didn't even take an hour, just two minutes. Frankly I don't care if the posters on here support Prop 20 or not, M... 128 comments | 4738 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #46

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    The person I called contemptable and hypocritical was Beverly Keepers. Her school has flourished at the expense of others and she enjoys an unfair advantage over other princiPALS. For her to be so out front in her support of this lunacy is nothing but conetmptable and hypocritical. I have heard no reason to change my mind.
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  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    You are a grown man. This is not about you so there is no reason for you or anyone else that is not in high school to take it personally. And there is no reason to attack Manual Students, Alumni, or supporters and lump us all together and say that all of us from Manual are hypocrites or contempable because our Principle has said that she doesn't think that Public Schools are competeing on the same level of private schools. The Manual posters on here are not afraid of the competition and we hope it continues, Trinity and St. X alumni have worked hard to make those schools have an advantage, and we still want to play you all. Keepers and maybe our coaches don't, but we do, and have said so. If anyone continues to call me or the other Ram posters or Manual students, and staff names because of the actions of those appointed in charge when we have said we don't want prop 20 to pass then that is on them, that shows your character and maturity. This is not personal it is High School sports. It is a game for kids to play, we all love it and we love the kids, but it is just a game, there is no reason to insult people.
    It is personal...we love our kids as well. And it's easy to say it's just a game when your institution has not ONE thing to lose, and EVERYTHING to gain. We feel insulted, and we DEFINITELY feel it's an attack on not only our kids, but on the very things we strive for, are committed to, and try to instill in our kids....a sense of what's right, and what's wrong...and that if you play by the rules, and you play hard, you will succeed. What this does is tell our kids that if you're too successful, a way will be found to have you eliminated....except in district play....then you'll be "graciously" "allowed" to play the publics...because after all, they do make the rules....we just have to follow them, regardless...
    Last edited by rockmom; Oct 18, 05 at 06:32 PM.

  3. #48

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    What she said

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    It is personal...we love our kids as well. And it's easy to say it's just a game when your institution has not ONE thing to lose, and EVERYTHING to gain. We feel insulted, and we DEFINITELY feel it's an attack on not only our kids, but on the very things we strive for, are committed to, and try to instill in our kids....a sense of what's right, and what's wrong...and that if you play by the rules, and you play hard, you will succeed. What this does is tell our kids that if you're too successful, a way will be found to have you eliminated....except in district play....then you'll be "graciously" "allowed" to play the publics...because after all, they do make the rules....we just have to follow them, regardless...

    Of course, I guess I'll just increase my admiration of the characters of the fine young men and women who continue to compete for the private schools after this passes. Afterall, they're willing to continue to play by those ever changing rules, and will continue to be successful, and even greater lessons will be learned....chiefly....no matter what life hands you, no matter how unfair, no matter how many times the rules change...it's possible to be successful, and proud to know that despite their best efforts, there's still a way to overcome the obstacles.
    We are going to have to disagree.

    It is not personal. There is no excuse at all for downing Manual or it's students or Manual posters on this board because of the Prop 20 issue. The fact is that just four Catholic Schools in Louisville have been far more successful than the 21 public schools in Louisville at winning State Championships. There is nothing wrong with that and they should be proud of it, there is also nothing wrong with Manual having the academic reputation and offering a quality education to students. But the advantage is clear simply in the amount of championships, the Private schools have an advantage as clearly as Manual does in say the regional science fair. Manual does have an advantage in the Science Fair and they did remove us from regional competition and made us our own region. There was no outcry when that happened!!! Where was the outcry then, how has that hurt the Catholic Schools and other schools?? And prop 20 would basically be removing the privates from the publics, and giveing them an easier road to a Championship.

    Of course as a fan of competition and a person that thinks to be the best you must beat the best I want prop 20 to fail (and it will in the end). But it is not like we are hurting anyones kids. No more than Manual was hurt from being removed from the Regional science fair. I dislike prop 20, but I have to laugh at the idea this is some great moral Crusade, or a battle of good and evil or right and wrong. There is no one trying to hurt your kids, they are trying to help their kids and your kids as they see it by providing two seperate playoff systems that allow for more teams to be champs. I think it is a watered down form of competition and I am against it, but they aren't trying to hurt your kids. They aren't forbiding them a championship, they are giving them an easier road to one.

    There is no great right or wrong moral issues here, it is a game. How do you think that Ballards kids felt getting beat 70-7 on Friday? Or Iroquois felt getting beat 51-0, when there QB was tired and hurting but couldn't leave the field because there was no one else on the sidelines to replace him? Those are kids too! And it is not Trinity and St. X's job to make those schools better programs, nor should St. X and Trinity try to go easy on them. But they clearly show an example of how some teams feel when they have to play X and T. Manual is not far removed from that, yes this year Manual has a good team and yes they have been on an up swing but for the 17 years Keepers has been Principal (there you go Spelling champ!) Manual has beaten Trinity once and St.X once in football, and been blown out many times. So from her perspective she remembers what it is like to see kids and Coaches work really hard and get beat 56-7 by St.X and it doesn't seem right to her. Coaches have seen the best Manual teams in 15 years come and go and still lose to the private schools. They don't think it is fair for their kids to compete against the odds that they face. The numbers advantages alone are in favor of X and T. I disagree with them on this point. But to call them names and say that they don't care about kids or this is some battle of good and evil is just plain wrong!!! You don't have to agree with them and you can fight for your kids and your schools points all you want but to attack us, and say Manual is on the wrong side of a moral war, because our principal is in favor of splitting the playoffs, is just crazy IMHO. This is sports people!!! It is supposed to be competitive and fun, I guess Mrs. Keepers just doesn't think it is competitive or fun to get beat 70-7 or 51-0, that doesn't make her the Devil*.


    *(she is the devil because she doesn't let the communication and MST magnet take part in the College and Career fair)


    Look I value many of you as friends, and my own family includes many X and T alumni. But this is an unhealthy amount of rage and vitriol being spewed forth towards a school I love, and towards people that have basically been agreeing with you. If people can't see that then I am sorry it has not been communicated well and I will say a prayer for you at Mass that you can find peace. Because I am not going to fight with you anymore about this.

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    Your principal has been a vocal proponent of a proposal that we feel will have a detrimental effect on our kids. Do you really expect us to sing Kumbaya with her and the other sponsors of this idiocy? It still amazes me that you have no problems with the real advantages that Manual has over other schools and yet even though you say you are against the proposal you defend the one person who may have benefited the most from the advantages Manual does have.

    You see it your way, I see it mine. I see Keepers as the worst kind of hypocrite. If you don't agree fine and while I'm at Mass Sunday I'll pray that Principal Keepers finds some humanity in her heart.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    Your principal has been a vocal proponent of a proposal that we feel will have a detrimental effect on our kids. Do you really expect us to sing Kumbaya with her and the other sponsors of this idiocy? It still amazes me that you have no problems with the real advantages that Manual has over other schools and yet even though you say you are against the proposal you defend the one person who may have benefited the most from the advantages Manual does have.

    You see it your way, I see it mine. I see Keepers as the worst kind of hypocrite. If you don't agree fine and while I'm at Mass Sunday I'll pray that Principal Keepers finds some humanity in her heart.
    Again I am not going to argue with you, but you posed a question and stated you were amazed at me so I will for the sake of communication try to clear things up. I don't expect you to praise Keepers. I expect you to disagree with her debate her and try to convince her with facts why she maybe wrong.

    I don't have problem with Manual because it is doing what it should, as is Trinity. Manual is a top academic school for a reason. The same reasons that Trinity is a good school and a top football and sports school. I don't have a problem with either school. Manual and Trinity both do the same thing, we use our reputation and traditions for excellence to draw students from around the county. The difference is that Manual is not all boys and that causes an advantage in sports that Mrs. Keepers doesn't think that we or any public school can compete with. To me that makes Mrs. Keepers incorrect on this issue, not a hypocrite or inhuman. She just says that in her opinion that the publics can't compete with the ability of the privates to draw the best athletes. That is just how I see it. She is not an evil person, or a Catholic hater, she just sees this issue different from you and me.

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    You have your opinion I have mine.

    Nothing's changed

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    You have your opinion I have mine.

    Nothing's changed
    And again I have never been trying to change your opinion of prop 20. I just don't like you trashing Manual and my fellow Rams because you disagree with the Principal on a sports issue. I may not like something Coach Beatty has done, but I don't trash you or your sons school or call him an inhumane hypocrite. I am as human as the next guy, but I try as much as possible to stick to the issue not the person. Do you understand what I mean?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    I believe (hope) that sticky was being facetious.


    I thought I was laying it on pretty thick too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    Personally, I'll think the entire "R" word will have more merit when schools are complaining about losing Merit Sholars and Governor's Scholars. I mean, that is what educational institutions are about, right?
    Yeah, but I can't remember the last time several thousand people got together to watch a Scholastic Debate!

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    To all of the Manual posters on this board: If you are against these proposals, good. I don't believe that I have called you any names. If I have, my apologies. I would suggest that you use whatever influence you have as distinguished alumni to attempt to inform Dr. Keepers of the real situation regarding financial aid in private high schools. "The time is past when good men may be silent." I have not had anything good to say about your principal because she is a misinformed know nothing, at least on this issue. She may be good to her dog and an otherwise fine person but to the extent that she represents duPont Manual High School, her actions bring discredit on the school.

    As far as taking this as personal, it is. When a kid enrolls at Trinity, they become part of the family, my family. Come after my family and it is personal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    To all of the Manual posters on this board: If you are against these proposals, good. I don't believe that I have called you any names. If I have, my apologies. I would suggest that you use whatever influence you have as distinguished alumni to attempt to inform Dr. Keepers of the real situation regarding financial aid in private high schools. "The time is past when good men may be silent." I have not had anything good to say about your principal because she is a misinformed know nothing, at least on this issue. She may be good to her dog and an otherwise fine person but to the extent that she represents duPont Manual High School, her actions bring discredit on the school.

    As far as taking this as personal, it is. When a kid enrolls at Trinity, they become part of the family, my family. Come after my family and it is personal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    To all of the Manual posters on this board: If you are against these proposals, good. I don't believe that I have called you any names. If I have, my apologies. I would suggest that you use whatever influence you have as distinguished alumni to attempt to inform Dr. Keepers of the real situation regarding financial aid in private high schools. "The time is past when good men may be silent." I have not had anything good to say about your principal because she is a misinformed know nothing, at least on this issue. She may be good to her dog and an otherwise fine person but to the extent that she represents duPont Manual High School, her actions bring discredit on the school.

    As far as taking this as personal, it is. When a kid enrolls at Trinity, they become part of the family, my family. Come after my family and it is personal.


    Exactly! Well said, TA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum

    As far as taking this as personal, it is. When a kid enrolls at Trinity, they become part of the family, my family. Come after my family and it is personal.
    "Let's make that kid an offer he can't refuse". (just kidding)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    And again I have never been trying to change your opinion of prop 20. I just don't like you trashing Manual and my fellow Rams because you disagree with the Principal on a sports issue. I may not like something Coach Beatty has done, but I don't trash you or your sons school or call him an inhumane hypocrite. I am as human as the next guy, but I try as much as possible to stick to the issue not the person. Do you understand what I mean?
    To be completely honest I don't care. As a fellow Trinity supporter has pointed out Keepers has been very vocal in her support for Prop 20 and she has done so by her choice so any criticism she gets she has in effect brought on herself. You can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. Maybe I was overboard calling her inhuman but she is in ill informed hypocrite. Her position as the principal of the best academic school in Jefferson County has come because of an advantage that was granted Manual in the placement of outstanding students. For anyone from Manual to ignore that fact is the same as what Trinity and X people are accused of when they won't admit that numbers are an advantage for them. The fact that she now wants "fairness" is so hypocritical it is almost laughable.

    I will also echo a question by my fellow Trinity supporter. Have any of the Manual fans that are opposed to this idiocy expressed their opinions to Keepers?

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