The pot calling the kettle black (the true story of Male, Manual, and Scott County)!

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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    As far as kids getting picked on because they were smart in high school, that isn't the way I remember it. The smart kids were the leaders and very widely respected.
    And that's why Trinity is where I would've gone if the Magnet school system didn't exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    Yes, schools have different levels. Regular classes, honors, and some have advanced. I guess some people are just too good for the Fern Creeks and Moore's. You obviously can't be more intelligent then a manual kid if you went to one of those schools. Since manual is a whole other level.


    There are, OF COURSE, intelligent individuals at other schools. Manual is not for everyone, not even the highly intelligent. It is vigorous, competitive, and demanding, and some 14-18 year-olds are just not interested in that environment.

    At the same time, I believe that the kids that are suited for Manual excell in that setting beyond what they might elsewhere.

    Do you want me to pull out the test scores? How about in AP European History- When I took that as a Sophmore, we were in the testing with the Fern Creek kids. They took the same test. 15 of us got the highest possible score (5), and no one else in the entire county did, that year. At Manual, that class was by mandate the first AP class you're allowed to take, as a Sophmore (it might be different now.) It was therefore not just a task of teaching that class, but thee entire AP system (What are DBQs, how to answer them, this is how these tests trend, etc.) I got a 5, but without that teacher (Mr. Garret, may the FORCE be with him) I don't know that I would have, nor do I believe I would have been successful in my other AP endeavors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    And that's why Trinity is where I would've gone if the Magnet school system didn't exist.
    I see that as something that can be fixed and it starts with the school leadership. A few years ago there was a young man (freshman) at Trinity that had some physical "differences" that would have made him easy prey. Very early in the year one of the coaches picked up that some of the other freshmen were picking on the kid. He asked the seniors on the football team to look out for the kid. When some bad behavior was observed, a couple of the football players explained to the offenders that that was not the way we treated our brothers at Trinity and that the young man in question was a friend of theirs and they would be watching. The problem stopped. In every school you will get the kind of leadership that you value. If a kid becomes a school leader because he or she is an athlete, in spite of the fact that they pick on others and the school tolerates that kind of behavior, that is the kind of leader you will get. If the school insists that everyone be treated with respect and tolerates nothing less, that is the kind of leaders you will get. This does not have to be a public/private difference. Does your school overlook a little hazing on its sports teams in the interest of building team spirit? If it does, what makes you think that that behavior won't carry over into how the athletes treat the students at large. Does your school insist that students treat each other with respect and have a faculty that refuses to ignore bad behavior? Coaches can have a profound impact on these young lives. If a student is passing, but not working up to potential, will the coach assign running or some other kind of punishment? I saw a coach bench a kid once, despite the fact that he was eligible, because the kid wasn't working hard enough in class. You get the kind of school you insist on.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I see that as something that can be fixed and it starts with the school leadership. A few years ago there was a young man (freshman) at Trinity that had some physical "differences" that would have made him easy prey. Very early in the year one of the coaches picked up that some of the other freshmen were picking on the kid. He asked the seniors on the football team to look out for the kid. When some bad behavior was observed, a couple of the football players explained to the offenders that that was not the way we treated our brothers at Trinity and that the young man in question was a friend of theirs and they would be watching. The problem stopped. In every school you will get the kind of leadership that you value. If a kid becomes a school leader because he or she is an athlete, in spite of the fact that they pick on others and the school tolerates that kind of behavior, that is the kind of leader you will get. If the school insists that everyone be treated with respect and tolerates nothing less, that is the kind of leaders you will get. This does not have to be a public/private difference. Does your school overlook a little hazing on its sports teams in the interest of building team spirit? If it does, what makes you think that that behavior won't carry over into how the athletes treat the students at large. Does your school insist that students treat each other with respect and have a faculty that refuses to ignore bad behavior? Coaches can have a profound impact on these young lives. If a student is passing, but not working up to potential, will the coach assign running or some other kind of punishment? I saw a coach bench a kid once, despite the fact that he was eligible, because the kid wasn't working hard enough in class. You get the kind of school you insist on.
    Good post!

    I wish it was that way everywhere but it is just not a reality. There are some kids that you just canít do anything with and the schools hands are tied. I really think that most private school parents havenít got a clue when it comes to problem kids at public schools. The worst problem of all is that you have parents who tell their kids that they donít have to listen to nobody and you canít talk to them. In school detention doesnít work because IMO it is not a deterrent. You canít kick them out unless it is for drugs, weapons or violence. IMO the main problem at public schools are the parents who will not do anything to help their child and only use the school as a babysitter and they donít care if their problem child makes it hard for your son or daughter whether it is picking fights for just acting up in class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayfieldsportsfan
    Good post!

    I wish it was that way everywhere but it is just not a reality. There are some kids that you just canít do anything with and the schools hands are tied. I really think that most private school parents havenít got a clue when it comes to problem kids at public schools. The worst problem of all is that you have parents who tell their kids that they donít have to listen to nobody and you canít talk to them. In school detention doesnít work because IMO it is not a deterrent. You canít kick them out unless it is for drugs, weapons or violence. IMO the main problem at public schools are the parents who will not do anything to help their child and only use the school as a babysitter and they donít care if their problem child makes it hard for your son or daughter whether it is picking fights for just acting up in class.

    Actually, I'd put the onus on the lawmakers who've caved to the problem children's parents demands to manipulate the system to benefit THEIR kids. While most likely the minority, they've ruined it for ALL students. If the legislators would have stuck to their guns, and put the priority on the best interest of ALL students, it would have forced the parents to accept responsibility for their child's behavior. It's a bad situation when a school cannot decide that a student should be expelled. It sets a terrible example for all the kids, and the parents just have to complain a little, and they'll get what they want. Some kids push the envelope as far as they can, because they can. If there was ever a way a school could stand their ground and not allow themselves to be pushed around by the students and their parents, it would be the best day for public education in decades. As it is, there's always an unscrupulous lawyer (not all mind you, but there are enough), who'll take any small action a school may use to try and maintain standards, and shoot it down in the court system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayfieldsportsfan
    Good post!

    I wish it was that way everywhere but it is just not a reality. There are some kids that you just canít do anything with and the schools hands are tied. I really think that most private school parents havenít got a clue when it comes to problem kids at public schools. The worst problem of all is that you have parents who tell their kids that they donít have to listen to nobody and you canít talk to them. In school detention doesnít work because IMO it is not a deterrent. You canít kick them out unless it is for drugs, weapons or violence. IMO the main problem at public schools are the parents who will not do anything to help their child and only use the school as a babysitter and they donít care if their problem child makes it hard for your son or daughter whether it is picking fights for just acting up in class.
    I understand a little about how it works, but does it have to work that way? I know we're talking about biting off some trouble, but wouldn't it be worth it? There are some kids that you just can't reach and I don't see why those kids should be allowed to ruin a school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    Actually, I'd put the onus on the lawmakers who've caved to the problem children's parents demands to manipulate the system to benefit THEIR kids. While most likely the minority, they've ruined it for ALL students. If the legislators would have stuck to their guns, and put the priority on the best interest of ALL students, it would have forced the parents to accept responsibility for their child's behavior. It's a bad situation when a school cannot decide that a student should be expelled. It sets a terrible example for all the kids, and the parents just have to complain a little, and they'll get what they want. Some kids push the envelope as far as they can, because they can. If there was ever a way a school could stand their ground and not allow themselves to be pushed around by the students and their parents, it would be the best day for public education in decades. As it is, there's always an unscrupulous lawyer (not all mind you, but there are enough), who'll take any small action a school may use to try and maintain standards, and shoot it down in the court system.



    It still boils down to parents who are just lower than scum. Thos kids have to live in that kind of stuff and they think they have no way out so they just keep handing it down to the next generation.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I understand a little about how it works, but does it have to work that way? I know we're talking about biting off some trouble, but wouldn't it be worth it? There are some kids that you just can't reach and I don't see why those kids should be allowed to ruin a school.
    I really don't know the answer to that but most schools just canít afford the lawyers fees for such a battle.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I understand a little about how it works, but does it have to work that way? I know we're talking about biting off some trouble, but wouldn't it be worth it? There are some kids that you just can't reach and I don't see why those kids should be allowed to ruin a school.
    Other side of the spectrum, there are some kids that a normal school just can't provide for, and I don't see why those schools should be allowed to ruin (or lower the potential of) those kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    Other side of the spectrum, there are some kids that a normal school just can't provide for, and I don't see why those schools should be allowed to ruin (or lower the potential of) those kids.
    I question whether that is true and if there is a rare kid that would fit, there certainly aren't a school full of them. I know that Trinity has made arrangements for kids to take classes at Bellarmine when the need of the kid dictated it. I don't know how it was paid for, I just know that the kid didn't pay any more than the normal Trinity tuition.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    This prompted a question. Don't most of the high schools teach classes that are on widely different levels? If not, why not? It would seem to me that all of the high schools in Jefferson County are large enough to provide a range of levels and to tailor a program that fits the individual (i.e. strong in math and science, weaker in language or the other way around). As far as kids getting picked on because they were smart in high school, that isn't the way I remember it. The smart kids were the leaders and very widely respected.
    What's the point of dispersing all of the smart kids to scattered schools around the county if you're just going to group all of them in classes together (and separate from the average or lower performing kids)? The supposed reason for not sending high achievers to the same school is that, sprinkled around to "neighborhood schools", they will raise the level of the average kids in those schools (which I think is rubbish). The idea of teaching courses on widely different levels is an inefficient use of resources since you would have to have, say three or four levels of science, math, english, etc. in each school for each grade to cater to all of the different ability levels. Rather than trying to make each school all things to all people, JCPS has set up most of their high schools to specialize in various career fields instead (aviation, business, health care, technical to name a few), in addition to offering high level college prep curriculums at Male and Manual.

    And you probably didn't experience the smart kids being picked on, Trinity Alum, because you went to a school where A) there was discipline and B) the kids chose to be there and wanted to learn. Not all schools are like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    Other side of the spectrum, there are some kids that a normal school just can't provide for, and I don't see why those schools should be allowed to ruin (or lower the potential of) those kids.
    Send them to Holmes. We have IB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H
    What's the point of dispersing all of the smart kids to scattered schools around the county if you're just going to group all of them in classes together (and separate from the average or lower performing kids)? The supposed reason for not sending high achievers to the same school is that, sprinkled around to "neighborhood schools", they will raise the level of the average kids in those schools (which I think is rubbish). The idea of teaching courses on widely different levels is an inefficient use of resources since you would have to have, say three or four levels of science, math, english, etc. in each school for each grade to cater to all of the different ability levels. Rather than trying to make each school all things to all people, JCPS has set up most of their high schools to specialize in various career fields instead (aviation, business, health care, technical to name a few), in addition to offering high level college prep curriculums at Male and Manual.

    And you probably didn't experience the smart kids being picked on, Trinity Alum, because you went to a school where A) there was discipline and B) the kids chose to be there and wanted to learn. Not all schools are like that.
    The smart kids weren't picked on because they were the school leaders and to me, that is the point. I think that the selective schools in JCPS are very good schools, but the flip side of it is that for every good school there is also one that is awful. Would those schools be better if they had the leadership of some of the strong students that are concentrated into a few schools? If you have 400 kids per grade, that means you are going to have about 16 freshman, sophmore etc english classes. Four, five or six levels doesn't seem too hard. Out of 400, you should be able to find enough kids for a Calculus A/B section and a Calculus B/C section. Same for a pretty wide selection of AP courses. Finding enough teachers for all of those AP classes might be the bigger problem. As I said in an earlier post. The high schools in Jefferson County are large enough for all levels to be taught at all schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I question whether that is true and if there is a rare kid that would fit, there certainly aren't a school full of them. I know that Trinity has made arrangements for kids to take classes at Bellarmine when the need of the kid dictated it. I don't know how it was paid for, I just know that the kid didn't pay any more than the normal Trinity tuition.
    There are hundreds of students at Manual that take classes at U of L each year, on top of their normal AP classes at Manual.

    There are so many National Merit kids each year, that they make up a double digit percentage of the Senior Class.

    On top of that, Manual is its own region in Science Fair, and owns a disproportionate percentage of the St. James Art Fair and Gold Key Scholarships for art.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gametime
    There you go again...
    That is a true statement, they think they are doing what is right. I don't agree with them but I respect that their intentions aren't "evil". If you don't get that then think and say what you want but my conscience is clear either way. I understand completely why the privates are mad, the key to their supremacy is being put into jeopardy, I get that. Why can't you get that the publics are going to want to do what is in their interest? You don't have to agree with it, I know I don't, but I understand why they are doing this.

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