The pot calling the kettle black (the true story of Male, Manual, and Scott County)!

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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by PepRock01
    No, it is likely that he wouldn't have ever advanced any farther in the JCPS hierarchy had he done that.

    Before you respond bear in mind that I am in the educational field and I have had considerable experience with administration, teachers and coaches in this school system and I have a unanimous consent wth those that I have spoken to that if you do not respond to a particular question favorably on the yearly questionairre then your chance for advancement is effectively nil.
    Yeah but his kids were in the Traditional program that fed into Male before he took the Eastern job and I think he was at Male before that (correct me if I am wrong) I am not disagreeing with your point about rising in the public schools, but it does make it more clear that his kids were already in a program with kids they knew and that might be why he didn't swap them to Eastern.
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    I was merely referencing his KCD comment, the rest of it is fine by me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PepRock01
    I was merely referencing his KCD comment, the rest of it is fine by me.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    Male and Manual stand to benefit the most if Prop 20 passes. Convenient isn't it.

    Male and Manual (whether their supporters admit it or not) share many of the benefits that the private schools have at the expense of other schools in the county. Both draw the best and brightest students away from other public schools. Quite frankly I don't care if either school does one thing to influence potential students the bottom line is that they do take students that would go to other schools if they did not enjoy their privileged (and after reading some of the posters here, elitist) status.

    The fact that those two schools above all of the others have attached their names to this farce is hypocricy at it's finest and that is why their names are brought up.
    No Manual or Male supporter is going to (or should have to) apologize for their schools' academic success or the fact that they draw in very good students whose parents care about their education. Providing the best possible education should be the purpose of any school (not building a killer athletic program).

    Yeah, sure, Male and Manual would stand to benefit from Prop 20 passing. But what if the purpose of having an apparent landslide of support for Prop 20 (in the form of multiple high profile co-sponsors) is just to provide leverage to get some of the other less-Draconian measures passed? I don't want to see the privates kicked off the island, but I would like to see their advantages reigned in a bit in the spirit of balanced athletic competition (which is what the KHSAA is supposed to foster). If Male and Manual have to endure these shrill charges of hypocrisy to achieve this end, so be it.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by H
    No Manual or Male supporter is going to (or should have to) apologize for their schools' academic success or the fact that they draw in very good students whose parents care about their education. Providing the best possible education should be the purpose of any school (not building a killer athletic program).

    Yeah, sure, Male and Manual would stand to benefit from Prop 20 passing. But what if the purpose of having an apparent landslide of support for Prop 20 (in the form of multiple high profile co-sponsors) is just to provide leverage to get some of the other less-Draconian measures passed? I don't want to see the privates kicked off the island, but I would like to see their advantages reigned in a bit in the spirit of balanced athletic competition (which is what the KHSAA is supposed to foster). If Male and Manual have to endure these shrill charges of hypocrisy to achieve this end, so be it.
    And I have to say that is exactly what this looks like to me as well! I don't like prop 20 and it makes all the Publics look bad, but it really is just a tool for getting some of the less harsh props passed.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by PepRock01
    No, it is likely that he wouldn't have ever advanced any farther in the JCPS hierarchy had he done that.

    Before you respond bear in mind that I am in the educational field and I have had considerable experience with administration, teachers and coaches in this school system and I have a unanimous consent wth those that I have spoken to that if you do not respond to a particular question favorably on the yearly questionairre then your chance for advancement is effectively nil.
    I agree that sending your kids to a private school if you are a public school administrator could be a CLM (career limiting move). However, one can't reasonably surmise that Sexton, a public school employee who sent his kids to (GASP!) public schools, wanted to send them to private school but declined due to fear of career reprisals.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    Actually Jim (call me Mr.) Sexton's own school wasn't good enough for his kids.

    They went to Male

    And for the record I never called anyone on this site a hypocrite, I called the Manu"E"l administration hypocrites for supporting Prop 20 and I stand by that position.
    No, but you threw in "elitist", which I kind of like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H
    I agree that sending your kids to a private school if you are a public school administrator could be a CLM (career limiting move). However, one can't reasonably surmise that Sexton, a public school employee who sent his kids to (GASP!) public schools, wanted to send them to private school but declined due to fear of career reprisals.

    Not in his particular instance, but the threat IS there. I am not basing this on idle speculation either, believe me. I know many individuals whom this applies to, and I was SHOCKED and appalled when I first discovered this some years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    Exhibit A read it again. I am not taking it both ways. It is like gay marraige, I have an opinion on it, but I am not going to do anything about it either way because frankly it doesn't effect me enough to. That is not fence sitting, fence sitting is trying to appease both sides or not being able to decide what I believe. I am not trying to do that, if anything I am making the publics mad at me for coming out against prop 20, and the Privates are mad because I won't condemn the publics and convert.

    I have an opinion. I disagree with Prop 20, but I am not going to grab the torch and pitchfork or condemn the people that do support the props, because I think they think they are doing what is right for their schools and they have reasons based on the record to back them, I respect that even if I disagree with it and what they are doing.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    I disagree with Prop 20, but I am not going to grab the torch and pitchfork or condemn the people that do support the props, because I think they think they are doing what is right for their schools and they have reasons based on the record to back them, I respect that even if I disagree with it and what they are doing.
    There you go again...

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    But Male and Manuals Academic success is because they get to pick and choose students. They don't have to take kids like the rest of Jefferson County. You can't compare yestedays cats scores against other louisville schools. a school like Fern Creek will never have scores like male or manual, never. Because they don't get to pick anyone and kick anyone out.

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    and, Sexton sending his kids to Manual or male is like sending them to St. X basically. These schools have basically the same advantage that the privates do.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    But Male and Manuals Academic success is because they get to pick and choose students. They don't have to take kids like the rest of Jefferson County. You can't compare yestedays cats scores against other louisville schools. a school like Fern Creek will never have scores like male or manual, never. Because they don't get to pick anyone and kick anyone out.
    OK, I've had just about enough on this point.

    This isn't about the magnet school system and its academic results. But you'd like it to be, I gather.

    The magnet school system may not make Fern Creek have better test scores than if those Manual kids were scattered throughout the county (although, the real benefit would go to Private Schools, I went to Manual and believe you me there are some rich kids there. Anyway,) but it makes INDIVIDUAL test scores at each school better. Kids get a better education when they are taught at an appropriate level, not trying to meet some silly middlepoint that's above the heads of one group and might as well be review from last year for another. It also helps that it gives smart kids a place where they don't have to pretend they don't know the answer to keep from getting picked on.

    My mother wanted to send me to Brown for kindergarten and elementary school, but she became very ill and I had to go to my neighborhood school. I went to a feeder school for Fern Creek most of elementary school- Wheeler. It was a nice school, has great test scores, all that jazz. But I was out of place there. I was in third grade math in the first grade, only because it was unavoidable- my mother adamantly opposed my being skipped any grades, because I needed the social training (I was fat and smart... it doesn't really give you a leg up at seven.) I needed some place where school wasn't a joke for me, where I couldn't draw Ninja Turtle comics during class, and still get the answer if I were called on (another problem of my youth )

    So I went to ML King (which was a much better school in those days) and it was like heaven to me. School was finally more of a challenge, and I finally knew other kids like myself. Although I was at 37th and Muhammed Ali, I felt more at home than at the school that I could see from my bedroom window when the leaves were down. I made many friends there, some that are still my friends today. The experience was positive, so like 23 of my other 27 classmates, I went to Noe Middle, and eventually on to Manual.

    Studies have shown that although you'd LIKE to think that a kid who is far advanced from the rest of the class can help raise the collective bar, what really ends up happening is that the top kid gets pulled down. The other kids don't ask him to lead study sessions, they stuff him in lockers. At Manual, I don't think I've ever heard of a kid being picked on because he's too intelligent, and in my mind that's justification enough. If the rest of school-society didn't treat us like garbage because that's how they saw it done in the movies or on TV, then maybe I wouldn't have been so vehement about it. Alas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    OK, I've had just about enough on this point.

    This isn't about the magnet school system and its academic results. But you'd like it to be, I gather.

    The magnet school system may not make Fern Creek have better test scores than if those Manual kids were scattered throughout the county (although, the real benefit would go to Private Schools, I went to Manual and believe you me there are some rich kids there. Anyway,) but it makes INDIVIDUAL test scores at each school better. Kids get a better education when they are taught at an appropriate level, not trying to meet some silly middlepoint that's above the heads of one group and might as well be review from last year for another. It also helps that it gives smart kids a place where they don't have to pretend they don't know the answer to keep from getting picked on.

    My mother wanted to send me to Brown for kindergarten and elementary school, but she became very ill and I had to go to my neighborhood school. I went to a feeder school for Fern Creek most of elementary school- Wheeler. It was a nice school, has great test scores, all that jazz. But I was out of place there. I was in third grade math in the first grade, only because it was unavoidable- my mother adamantly opposed my being skipped any grades, because I needed the social training (I was fat and smart... it doesn't really give you a leg up at seven.) I needed some place where school wasn't a joke for me, where I couldn't draw Ninja Turtle comics during class, and still get the answer if I were called on (another problem of my youth )

    So I went to ML King (which was a much better school in those days) and it was like heaven to me. School was finally more of a challenge, and I finally knew other kids like myself. Although I was at 37th and Muhammed Ali, I felt more at home than at the school that I could see from my bedroom window when the leaves were down. I made many friends there, some that are still my friends today. The experience was positive, so like 23 of my other 27 classmates, I went to Noe Middle, and eventually on to Manual.

    Studies have shown that although you'd LIKE to think that a kid who is far advanced from the rest of the class can help raise the collective bar, what really ends up happening is that the top kid gets pulled down. The other kids don't ask him to lead study sessions, they stuff him in lockers. At Manual, I don't think I've ever heard of a kid being picked on because he's too intelligent, and in my mind that's justification enough. If the rest of school-society didn't treat us like garbage because that's how they saw it done in the movies or on TV, then maybe I wouldn't have been so vehement about it. Alas.
    This prompted a question. Don't most of the high schools teach classes that are on widely different levels? If not, why not? It would seem to me that all of the high schools in Jefferson County are large enough to provide a range of levels and to tailor a program that fits the individual (i.e. strong in math and science, weaker in language or the other way around). As far as kids getting picked on because they were smart in high school, that isn't the way I remember it. The smart kids were the leaders and very widely respected.

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    Yes, schools have different levels. Regular classes, honors, and some have advanced. I guess some people are just too good for the Fern Creeks and Moore's. You obviously can't be more intelligent then a manual kid if you went to one of those schools. Since manual is a whole other level.

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