The pot calling the kettle black (the true story of Male, Manual, and Scott County)!

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  1. #181

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    Academics are competition. If they weren't they wouldn't be posting CATS scores in the paper and rewarding high testing schools and looking to punish low ones. Manual and Male are rigged to win that competition amongst public schools. You cannot compare a Iroquois to a manual in academics. Iroquois will never be close to Manual in academics, because Manual picks and chooses while Iroquois and other schools cannot. Manual can refuse anyone they want. Iroquois can't refuse kids in the resides area. Manual has no real resides area.

    If you think academics aren't about competition too. You are crazy.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    I mean if Vic Andersons parents really wanted him to have a catholic school education and everyone was so good about letting people know about financial aid why didn't he go to a Catholic School before he was a grade school stand out? It is not against the rules, but it smells bad.

    I dunno, maybe the same reason Im not catholic, didnt go to a catholic grade school, and still had all kinds of finacial aid while never playing a single sport at X. Maybe he thought the public schools he had the choice of attending weren't preparing him for life after high school. I certainly felt that way. I was a C-D student at the public high school. I transferred to X after my freshman year. I drove 23 miles one way and ended up with a 3.4 gpa by the time I left. I think this is the EXACT reason why you see students bail out on the public schools system. Many times it has let families down and they want a change.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    I just think that the knee jerk reaction of pointing at Manual and Male and others and getting mad at posters from those schools and attacking programs people don't understand or have any experience with is silly.
    That sure sounds a whole lot like what the defenders of private schools say when asked why they choose to send their kids to a schools where they have to pay tuition. You know the line "if you haven't experienced it you don't understand it" and it sure seems like words like arrogant and condescending get thrown around when private school supporters say them.

    I'll say this for about the millionth time. I have no problems with schools like Male and Manual but for their supporters to say that they don't have most of the "advantages" that private schools have is either severe denial or just plain dishonesty. And now the principal and AD at those schools are among those supporting this proposal. That IMVHO is hypocricy pure and simple.

    You also brought up the 20 mile proposal. Should Male and Manual be held to that limitation as well? If not why not? If I'm not mistaken Jim (call me Mr.) Sexton's proposal does not include public schools.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    That sure sounds a whole lot like what the defenders of private schools say when asked why they choose to send their kids to a schools where they have to pay tuition. You know the line "if you haven't experienced it you don't understand it" and it sure seems like words like arrogant and condescending get thrown around when private school supporters say them.

    I'll say this for about the millionth time. I have no problems with schools like Male and Manual but for their supporters to say that they don't have most of the "advantages" that private schools have is either severe denial or just plain dishonesty. And now the principal and AD at those schools are among those supporting this proposal. That IMVHO is hypocricy pure and simple.
    I think that line had more to do with the FALSE attacks leveled at Manual (like Manual being the only school that kids from outside the county can attend if they pay tuition.)

    I'm glad all these Catholic school supporters are having a good time attacking the most solid group of supporters that they have on this site from a public school. We've come out against Proposition 20. You're causing more harm than good.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    That sure sounds a whole lot like what the defenders of private schools say when asked why they choose to send their kids to a schools where they have to pay tuition. You know the line "if you haven't experienced it you don't understand it" and it sure seems like words like arrogant and condescending get thrown around when private school supporters say them.

    I'll say this for about the millionth time. I have no problems with schools like Male and Manual but for their supporters to say that they don't have most of the "advantages" that private schools have is either severe denial or just plain dishonesty. And now the principal and AD at those schools are among those supporting this proposal. That IMVHO is hypocricy pure and simple.

    You also brought up the 20 mile proposal. Should Male and Manual be held to that limitation as well? If not why not? If I'm not mistaken Jim (call me Mr.) Sexton's proposal does not include public schools.
    I don't think ram95 came out in favor of the 20 mile limit, just that he thought this was a ploy to make the 20 mile limit a compromise position. JCPS will NOT change the way they run their Magnet school system in order to comply with the KHSAA on anything.

  6. #186

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    Sure is painful when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?

    The private schools have regularly had to defend themselves from attacks, based on nothing more then perception, on this and other boards since these boards have been around.

    I realize that many of the Manual people on here have STATED that they do not support Prop 20 but your principal is one of the co-sponsors of it. The bottom line is that just like me you have no vote in the matter and your schools has already "officially" made it's views known. How are we causing more harm then good? Do you really think that there is any chance that Manual will vote against this proposal? Do you really think that anything that is said on these boards will have ant effect on the vote at all?

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    I don't think ram95 came out in favor of the 20 mile limit, just that he thought this was a ploy to make the 20 mile limit a compromise position. JCPS will NOT change the way they run their Magnet school system in order to comply with the KHSAA on anything.
    So if that proposal passes your believe that Manual and JCPS would be "above" the rules set forth by the KHSAA?

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    Sure is painful when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?

    The private schools have regularly had to defend themselves from attacks, based on nothing more then perception, on this and other boards since these boards have been around.

    I realize that many of the Manual people on here have STATED that they do not support Prop 20 but your principal is one of the co-sponsors of it. The bottom line is that just like me you have no vote in the matter and your schools has already "officially" made it's views known. How are we causing more harm then good? Do you really think that there is any chance that Manual will vote against this proposal? Do you really think that anything that is said on these boards will have ant effect on the vote at all?
    Seriously, are you having fun? I'm glad that we've all taken the time, from WAY before this proposition came up, to defend Trinity and X. Who filled out Trinity's non-varsity schedule last year, when other schools were boycotting? Oh yeah, that'd be Manual.

    The more unpopular the switch is, the less likely that it passes the board. If it's unpopular enough, the state might get involved...

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    So if that proposal passes your believe that Manual and JCPS would be "above" the rules set forth by the KHSAA?
    I think that JCPS just wouldn't care about anything the KHSAA says on that issue. I don't think it would pass without the support from JCPS anyway, and the only way they COULD get it, would be to make sure JCPS would be considered a single district, and that the 20 miles would extend from the borders of the county.

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram95
    Besides I am of the opinion that prop 20 is just a mechanism to encourage the passage of the other rules about the 20 mile limit, and transfers, not really a effort to get rid of the privates unless they refuse the others.
    You have kids at Manual that live over 20 miles away, how would THAT be fair?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    You also brought up the 20 mile proposal. Should Male and Manual be held to that limitation as well? If not why not? If I'm not mistaken Jim (call me Mr.) Sexton's proposal does not include public schools.
    I think you're mistaken. My reading of Proposal 1 includes the public schools. The proposal defines geographic territories for all schools (public and private). For public schools with open enrollment, the territory is the entire school system (Jefferson County in the example of Male and Manual). For private schools, the territory is a circle with a 20 mile radius from the school, not extending across state lines. If you take a look at a map, Trinity is less than 20 miles from Crestwood, Buckner, and Shelbyville, therefore some of Oldham and Shelby Counties are included in their territory as defined by the proposal. X's 20 mile radius also stretches beyond Jefferson County in many directions. Male and Manual's territory may extend beyond 20 miles, but it only includes Jefferson County. For Male and Manual to draw students from outside of Jefferson County (aka their "territory" as defined in the proposal), the first year of high school athletic eligibility would be lost (just as it would be for a student attending a private school with a residence >20 miles away).

    Incidentally, I think Proposal 20 is an apocalyptic bluff intended to gently push delegates toward the more "moderate" proposals like the 20 mile rule.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by H
    I think you're mistaken. My reading of Proposal 1 includes the public schools. The proposal defines geographic territories for all schools (public and private). For public schools with open enrollment, the territory is the entire school system (Jefferson County in the example of Male and Manual). For private schools, the territory is a circle with a 20 mile radius from the school, not extending across state lines. If you take a look at a map, Trinity is less than 20 miles from Crestwood, Buckner, and Shelbyville, therefore some of Oldham and Shelby Counties are included in their territory as defined by the proposal. X's 20 mile radius also stretches beyond Jefferson County in many directions. Male and Manual's territory may extend beyond 20 miles, but it only includes Jefferson County. For Male and Manual to draw students from outside of Jefferson County (aka their "territory" as defined in the proposal), the first year of high school athletic eligibility would be lost (just as it would be for a student attending a private school with a residence >20 miles away).

    Incidentally, I think Proposal 20 is an apocalyptic bluff intended to gently push delegates toward the more "moderate" proposals like the 20 mile rule.
    I reread the proposal and I am correct. The newly worded bylaw says that non-public schools are bound by the 20 mile limitation, public schools with a defined boundry are bound by that EXCEPT in cases of recriprocal aggrements with other schools and public schools with no defined boundry are bound only by the entire school districts area.

    Here it is copied from the KHSAA website:
    • Sec. 1) Territory Requirement
      Territory – For a public school with Board of Education
      specified boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the
      geographic boundaries and bus routes (school day, not special
      or activity busses) of the area served by that school as
      established by the local board of education including nonresident
      student agreements between districts pursuant to
      KRS 157.350(4). For a public school or multiple schools
      within a public school district that do not have clearly defined
      boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the geographic
      boundaries of the entire school district. For a non-public
      school, the “territory” of the school is the area within a
      twenty (20) mile radius of the school not to exceed the
      boundaries of the state.

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    I reread the proposal and I am correct. The newly worded bylaw says that non-public schools are bound by the 20 mile limitation, public schools with a defined boundry are bound by that EXCEPT in cases of recriprocal aggrements with other schools and public schools with no defined boundry are bound only by the entire school districts area.

    Here it is copied from the KHSAA website:
    • Sec. 1) Territory Requirement
      Territory – For a public school with Board of Education
      specified boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the
      geographic boundaries and bus routes (school day, not special
      or activity busses) of the area served by that school as
      established by the local board of education including nonresident
      student agreements between districts pursuant to
      KRS 157.350(4). For a public school or multiple schools
      within a public school district that do not have clearly defined
      boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the geographic
      boundaries of the entire school district. For a non-public
      school, the “territory” of the school is the area within a
      twenty (20) mile radius of the school not to exceed the
      boundaries of the state.

    All Tell, you must have been a back up for Matlock in your younger days or something.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    I reread the proposal and I am correct. The newly worded bylaw says that non-public schools are bound by the 20 mile limitation, public schools with a defined boundry are bound by that EXCEPT in cases of recriprocal aggrements with other schools and public schools with no defined boundry are bound only by the entire school districts area.

    Here it is copied from the KHSAA website:
    • Sec. 1) Territory Requirement
      Territory – For a public school with Board of Education
      specified boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the
      geographic boundaries and bus routes (school day, not special
      or activity busses) of the area served by that school as
      established by the local board of education including nonresident
      student agreements between districts pursuant to
      KRS 157.350(4). For a public school or multiple schools
      within a public school district that do not have clearly defined
      boundaries, the “territory” of the school is the geographic
      boundaries of the entire school district. For a non-public
      school, the “territory” of the school is the area within a
      twenty (20) mile radius of the school not to exceed the
      boundaries of the state.
    So, from your reading, you would agree that the JCPS schools don't have much to worry about? The only student at Manual in my grade that was from outside of Jefferson County, was a girl, and she played no sports.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockPride
    You have kids at Manual that live over 20 miles away, how would THAT be fair?
    Those kids would lose their first year of eligibility under Proposal 1, since their residence was outside of Manual's "territory" (aka Jefferson County). Since no one bellyaching on here has apparently bothered to consult a map, I would like to point out that all of Jefferson County is within a 20 mile radius of Manual (and Male) High School. Ergo (that means therefore in Latin), no built-in "advantage" for either school with this rule over X and T.

    In fact, since all of Jefferson County falls within a 20 mile radius of H and M, St X and Trinity will still enjoy a larger area to draw from even if Proposal 1 is passed. That includes Crestwood, Lagrange, Simpsonville, and Shepherdsville for Trinity.

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