Teacher arrested for resisting officer/remaining on premises after being forbidden

Page 2 of Teacher Speaks Out After Arrest For Criticizing Boss''' Raise Teacher was arrested during a school board meeting in which she questioned how th... 28 comments | 636 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #16
    theguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 00
    Location
    Florence
    Posts
    135,590

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    No, nothing like that.

    I watched it on the news last night and it seemed pretty evident that she was not being at all cooperative with the officer.

    That's where I am coming at it from. Maybe the school board overstepped its bounds, but her treatment of the officer merited the arrest IMO.
    I am repeating myself but in general terms it did look like a case where someone could be lawfully arrested but at the same time the local prosecutor said: “I did not see where she broke a law.”

    I look at these things pretty black and white, in regards to the law, either the police officer was wrong or the prosecutor is wrong and whoever is wrong needs to go.
    Advertisement

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Apr 14
    Posts
    3,235

    IMO this teacher's behavior was disrespectful to the orderly conduct of the school board's business, a terrible example to her students on how not to respect authority, and a blatant display of the "me too" generation doing whatever you want because you think you are always right. Sure am glad this kind of conduct can be mitigated by active, involved parents with better wisdom on how to professionally and maturely conduct oneself. Jusy a bad example for our students and a black eye for our educational system.

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 07
    Location
    Bluegrass Region
    Posts
    10,263

    I watched the video to this incident a few days ago.

    The teacher was recognized by the board to speak. She then started speaking and they obviously did not like what she said and was still say. Did they say - 'times up'? Did they say - 'your concerns are noted and part of the record and your time is over'? They seem to not direct or talk to her at all. Then the officer is in her face ordering her to leave - which she does after gathering her things. The officer then hand-cuffs her once out in the hallway. He cited no ordinance, he just took her into custody and then called for backup. Though she never refused a direction and never became physical. She was not moving fast enough apparently while he cuffed her and he does say - stop resisting. She was in no way resisting anything. She was basically in shock at what was happening.

    I believe the charge was something like 'public intimidation'.

    My gut feel is that the officer was told to eject her by someone on the board or someone in the school system before he approached her. He did not act unilaterally it seems.

  4. #19
    theguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 00
    Location
    Florence
    Posts
    135,590

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    I watched the video to this incident a few days ago.

    The teacher was recognized by the board to speak. She then started speaking and they obviously did not like what she said and was still say. Did they say - 'times up'? Did they say - 'your concerns are noted and part of the record and your time is over'? They seem to not direct or talk to her at all. Then the officer is in her face ordering her to leave - which she does after gathering her things. The officer then hand-cuffs her once out in the hallway. He cited no ordinance, he just took her into custody and then called for backup. Though she never refused a direction and never became physical. She was not moving fast enough apparently while he cuffed her and he does say - stop resisting. She was in no way resisting anything. She was basically in shock at what was happening.

    I believe the charge was something like 'public intimidation'.

    My gut feel is that the officer was told to eject her by someone on the board or someone in the school system before he approached her. He did not act unilaterally it seems.
    Remember everyone, the Police are ONLY supposed to act based on law.

    In other words, the Police can't be directed by private citizens to do something, the Police Officer would only be allowed to make an arrest if a law was being violated.

    With that said, what was in the article, the "remaining on premises after being forbidden" may be a lawful criminal charge in that jurisdiction when a private citizen that has control over an area (someone from the school system in this case) requests that anyone causing a disturbance leave the area and the person refuses to leave that area. Or in simple terms, the property owner wants you to leave their property and you refuse, then the Police can most likely take enforcement action.

  5. #20
    sweet16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 02
    Location
    The real WKY
    Posts
    20,352

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    I watched the video to this incident a few days ago.

    The teacher was recognized by the board to speak. She then started speaking and they obviously did not like what she said and was still say. Did they say - 'times up'? Did they say - 'your concerns are noted and part of the record and your time is over'? They seem to not direct or talk to her at all. Then the officer is in her face ordering her to leave - which she does after gathering her things. The officer then hand-cuffs her once out in the hallway. He cited no ordinance, he just took her into custody and then called for backup. Though she never refused a direction and never became physical. She was not moving fast enough apparently while he cuffed her and he does say - stop resisting. She was in no way resisting anything. She was basically in shock at what was happening.

    I believe the charge was something like 'public intimidation'.

    My gut feel is that the officer was told to eject her by someone on the board or someone in the school system before he approached her. He did not act unilaterally it seems.
    I watched the video as well. It looks like they didn’t want to hear her and when she spoke they asked her to stop.

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Apr 07
    Location
    Bluegrass Region
    Posts
    10,263

    Quote Originally Posted by theguru View Post
    Remember everyone, the Police are ONLY supposed to act based on law.

    In other words, the Police can't be directed by private citizens to do something, the Police Officer would only be allowed to make an arrest if a law was being violated.

    With that said, what was in the article, the "remaining on premises after being forbidden" may be a lawful criminal charge in that jurisdiction when a private citizen that has control over an area (someone from the school system in this case) requests that anyone causing a disturbance leave the area and the person refuses to leave that area. Or in simple terms, the property owner wants you to leave their property and you refuse, then the Police can most likely take enforcement action.
    I here you. I just posted how it looks in the video.

    Here is a clip. Start at 7:00. The chair has said that her comments were not 'germane' to the agenda already but the entire audience (mostly teachers) disagrees. The officer starts over at 7:15 and just orders her out immediately. The superindented started to talk before he got to her. but once he fronted her the superintendent just shakes his head and shuts up. There is no declaration that she is out of order, there is no specific order for her to terminate or yield back to the chair. Just the chair saying the comments are not germane. No one visibility ordered her ejected but clearly the officer is going to eject her.

    BTW, on youtube there are other videos of this board. Most are of 'special meetings' that seem to occur frequently at this parish.


  7. #22

    Join Date
    Apr 07
    Location
    Bluegrass Region
    Posts
    10,263

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet16 View Post
    I watched the video as well. It looks like they didn’t want to hear her and when she spoke they asked her to stop.
    They actually said her comments were not germane (old gentleman who seems to be the chair). No one really instructs her to terminate her comments from the board. Its a public meeting. The board should thank her for her comments and indicate that they are now on the record and specifically instruct her to cease. They really never do.

    Executing and simply enforcing some basic parliamentary procedures could have avoided this.

  8. #23
    TAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 09
    Location
    It's not where I live, It's what I live for
    Posts
    15,152

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    No, nothing like that.

    I watched it on the news last night and it seemed pretty evident that she was not being at all cooperative with the officer.

    That's where I am coming at it from. Maybe the school board overstepped its bounds, but her treatment of the officer merited the arrest IMO.
    He asked her to leave several times and she didnít. The question I have is what question did she ask him in the hallway that he would not answer?

  9. #24
    theguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 00
    Location
    Florence
    Posts
    135,590

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    I here you. I just posted how it looks in the video.

    Here is a clip. Start at 7:00. The chair has said that her comments were not 'germane' to the agenda already but the entire audience (mostly teachers) disagrees. The officer starts over at 7:15 and just orders her out immediately.
    I watched that part.

    When the Officer orders her out my question is was he ordering her out because he was ordering her out or was he ordering her out because she was violating a law. It could be either but she voluntarily complied with that order so my gut feeling would be she should not have been arrested based on what she did inside the meeting.

    The next question, and certainly more important, is what happened out in the hallway that caused the Officer to arrest her? In other words, did the Officer lawfully order her to leave the building, she refused, and he arrested her, or did they have some type of debate/disagreement and the Officer arrested her because "he had enough" or something like that?

    Without more evidence/information all we can do is speculate.

  10. #25

    Join Date
    Apr 07
    Location
    Bluegrass Region
    Posts
    10,263

    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    He asked her to leave several times and she didnít. The question I have is what question did she ask him in the hallway that he would not answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by theguru View Post
    I watched that part.

    When the Officer orders her out my question is was he ordering her out because he was ordering her out or was he ordering her out because she was violating a law. It could be either but she voluntarily complied with that order so my gut feeling would be she should not have been arrested based on what she did inside the meeting.

    The next question, and certainly more important, is what happened out in the hallway that caused the Officer to arrest her? In other words, did the Officer lawfully order her to leave the building, she refused, and he arrested her, or did they have some type of debate/disagreement and the Officer arrested her because "he had enough" or something like that?

    Without more evidence/information all we can do is speculate.
    I will give one last view of this and wrap up.

    a) She was recognized for comments. She was never un-recognized and dismissed. This is the crux of the source of the issue. Though the President (chair of the meeting apparently/ older gentlemen) said her comments were not germane he never dismissed her and asked her to sit. She stood, indicating she had the floor and remained standing until the officer intervened without ever being explicitly told her time was up or that the floor was not hers any more. In fact, as the officer intervened as the super was responding to her. But he sees what is about to happen - waves his hand, shakes his head and stops.

    b) The teacher (who was teacher of the year at some time) is completely confused why the officer is in her face. The panel has not terminated her time on the floor and she is even in an active discussion with the super when he arrives. She tries to address the panel looking past the officer, since she still has the floor. But the panel fails to respond. This is why I believe he was told to eject her. His instructions confound her since she still holds the floor and has not been dismissed formally. At 7:51 there is confusion of who is 'in charge' of the situation. She clearly has no idea why the officer is ejecting her but is complying with HIS orders after this time. The officer is mad at her after this because she did immediately address only him from the moment he fronted her. At 8:05 she makes this point clear because the officer is now clear irritated.

    c) I do not believe the officer ever tells her she is under arrest for xxxxx. Out in the parking lot he says 'you were not leaving' as the reason he cuffed her.

    The super took the hit on national TV saying he should have spoke up. If he was the chair of the meeting he is completely correct. But it seemed the President was the chair and he was the one that should have explicitly taken much, much better control. His comments are cited at the end of the segment below - nothing less than amazing.


  11. #26
    theguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 00
    Location
    Florence
    Posts
    135,590

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    I will give one last view of this and wrap up.

    a) She was recognized for comments. She was never un-recognized and dismissed. This is the crux of the source of the issue. Though the President (chair of the meeting apparently/ older gentlemen) said her comments were not germane he never dismissed her and asked her to sit. She stood, indicating she had the floor and remained standing until the officer intervened without ever being explicitly told her time was up or that the floor was not hers any more. In fact, as the officer intervened as the super was responding to her. But he sees what is about to happen - waves his hand, shakes his head and stops.

    b) The teacher (who was teacher of the year at some time) is completely confused why the officer is in her face. The panel has not terminated her time on the floor and she is even in an active discussion with the super when he arrives. She tries to address the panel looking past the officer, since she still has the floor. But the panel fails to respond. This is why I believe he was told to eject her. His instructions confound her since she still holds the floor and has not been dismissed formally. At 7:51 there is confusion who is 'in charge' of the situation. She clearly has no idea why the officer is ejecting her but is complying with HIS orders after this time. The officer is mad at her after this because she was still having a conversation after being recognized and never dismissed. At 8:05 she makes this point clear because the officer is now clear irritated.

    c) I do not believe the officer ever tell her she is under arrest for xxxxx. Out in the parking lot he says 'you were not leaving' as the reason he cuffed her.

    The super took the hit on national TV saying he should have spoke up. If he was the chair of the meeting he is completely correct. But it seemed the President was the chair and he was the one that should have explicitly taken much, much better control. His comments are cited at the end of the segment below - nothing less than amazing.

    As a matter of law I don't believe the "meeting decorum" has anything to do with this. In other words, it doesn't matter who was speaking, why they were speaking, when they were speaking, if they had permission to speak, if they were told they could no longer speak, if officials at the meeting were still speaking to them, etc.

    The bottom line is she was told to leave the meeting and she did. That should have concluded that segment/chapter of this incident.

    Moving out to the hallway, I can tell everyone from experience that people will argue argue argue with you even though you are giving them a lawful order to leave. At some point in situations like this (after the Officer has given the perpetrator several lawful orders to leave and the perp refuses to do so) the Officer has little choice but to make an arrest. Then, almost uniformly every time when the Officer makes a decision to arrest, the perpetrator tries to claim they are/were leaving, they get loud, fall to the ground, and immediately start complaining they are a victim.

  12. #27
    TAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 09
    Location
    It's not where I live, It's what I live for
    Posts
    15,152

    Quote Originally Posted by theguru View Post
    I watched that part.

    When the Officer orders her out my question is was he ordering her out because he was ordering her out or was he ordering her out because she was violating a law. It could be either but she voluntarily complied with that order so my gut feeling would be she should not have been arrested based on what she did inside the meeting.

    The next question, and certainly more important, is what happened out in the hallway that caused the Officer to arrest her? In other words, did the Officer lawfully order her to leave the building, she refused, and he arrested her, or did they have some type of debate/disagreement and the Officer arrested her because "he had enough" or something like that?

    Without more evidence/information all we can do is speculate.
    Thatís what I was asking. She kept referencing a question he did not answer. We never saw the early part of the hallway confrontation. Whether the had the floor or not the officer asked her to leave. If we are talking about following protocol, Several other ladies spoke without the floor as well. Maybe they too should have been dismissed?

  13. #28

    Join Date
    Feb 05
    Location
    WHO DEY!!!
    Posts
    20,250

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldercoach View Post
    IMO this teacher's behavior was disrespectful to the orderly conduct of the school board's business, a terrible example to her students on how not to respect authority, and a blatant display of the "me too" generation doing whatever you want because you think you are always right. Sure am glad this kind of conduct can be mitigated by active, involved parents with better wisdom on how to professionally and maturely conduct oneself. Jusy a bad example for our students and a black eye for our educational system.
    Isn't it also a black eye for our educational system to give raises to one person who already has the biggest salary in that district. While not giving raises to the ones who are actually teaching the future of our country?

    From all reports she actually did have the floor to speak. So she did nothing wrong in that regard. She even went over and got her stuff after the police officer stopped her while she still has the floor. I think you are looking at the wrong person or people on who set a bad example. The number of teachers are already going down. So a teacher bringing up that issue of the money is going to the wrong place is not a bad thing.

  14. #29
    NamecipS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 02
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    15,446

    Just stupid all the way around.

Top