Taking a Knee - Now What?

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  1. #16
    Randy Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    We complain about the injustice in our country. For the first time ever, Saudi Arabian women will be allowed to drive.
    Let's all keep Saudi Arabia in our prayers, then.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    Let's all keep Saudi Arabia in our prayers, then.
    Everybody pray for Randy after I forward this post to the League of Women Voters...

    ...pray for him to be squashed like a bug, that is.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    Everybody pray for Randy after I forward this post to the League of Women Voters...

    ...pray for him to be squashed like a bug, that is.
    In his avatar it looks like he already is.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    100 years? Are we using lynch mobs again? We bringing back separate water fountains?

    We're having discussions that were never had 100 years ago. They never could have been had.

    If 60 black men had taken a knee in front of the American flag during the national anthem 100 years ago, they'd have been beaten to death and nobody would've batted an eye.

    Race relations on a national level still need work but are far from the worst they've ever been in this country because formerly voiceless people actually have a voice in discussions about those relations.
    Race relations “need work.”

    - Getslow

    If only the world lived in yours we could achieve serenity.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Anthony View Post
    Race relations “need work.”

    - Getslow

    If only the world lived in yours.
    I've got a pretty good picture of what yours looks like.

    I have no idea how someone can look at the world and say, "Race relations have been set back 100 years." and ask to be taken seriously.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    Everybody pray for Randy after I forward this post to the League of Women Voters...
    Just present it to them at the next meeting. Are you still the Vice President?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    Just present it to them at the next meeting. Are you still the Vice President?
    I had a fairly haunting gif image picked out to respond with... but I'll spare you.

    Just imagine Seth Rogen in a wig and makeup and you'll have the general idea of me sitting on the dais at a League of Women Voters meeting.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow View Post
    I had a fairly haunting gif image picked out to respond with... but I'll spare you.

    Just imagine Seth Rogen in a wig and makeup and you'll have the general idea of me sitting on the dais at a League of Women Voters meeting.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Anthony View Post
    We were set back 100 years in the last 10 years in racial relations. There isn’t just a switch to flip to fix it. We have seen bad leadership by multiple parties.
    At the risk of presenting this point too simplistically, the U.S. having elected its first black president in 2008 was a cause for celebration that we as a nation had come a long way, and that no matter our storied, and not always so wonderful past, real strides had been made that hinted of even a more brighter future.

    With this also came both on hushed and loud terms, a resistance of sorts by some who seemed to want to prove that we as a country had made a horrible mistake, and with every move this rather peaceful civilized diplomatic even tempered man made was brought into question, and was met with distain.

    Many would never admit out loud (though I certainly have heard too many to count who have) that they weren't on board with having a black president, and used every opportunity imaginable to express this, even if only done so by criticizing him without specifying their true underlying objection. While some would claim that this had nothing to do with it, many could see through it loud and clear.

    With having a black president, something else came to be that the black community had finally felt a sense of empowerment and joy that they finally had a true voice in Obama, and understandably so felt it to be their opportunity to push further for fairness, but with this push also came a reawakened resistance that never truly had ever gone to bed.

    IMO with his diplomatic way he carefully weighed his words to avoid being seen as playing what he knew others would jump on as the race card with the hopes of seeing us move toward a less race preoccupied country where everyone no matter their race or diversity is treated fairy and with respect.

    Even with his calm calculated approach, no matter which way he handled difficult situations it was met with criticism as if he was some outlandish racist, though nothing could be further from the truth.

    With every difficult social issue that arrived during his presidency, came the narrative that it was he who was damaging race relations in our country. This accusation continued to be brought into contention by those who were also the ones who had trouble with having a black president, and if they could pin it on him rather than look inward where the true problem lied, they could in their distorted minds hopefully show the world what a mistake it was to have elected him.

    These folks spent 8 years despising the new "correctness" of our country to be acceptant of diversity and fairness for all, and considered it to be a threat to their privileged stranglehold, and wasn't ready to have to accept everything that they had spent their entire lives being raised to hate.

    Then arrived their savior who purposely spoke their language for his own gain, and who must continue to if he stands a chance of remaining in power. He gave a voice back to the resistance of acceptance, and while for 8 years they might've carefully spoke their distain in certain circles, he empowered them to pull the hoods right off and show their true racists selves in broad day light.

    As a reaction to this serious step backwards for our country we now have people of all colors and diversity standing up to say "We have come too far now to have to take this terrible ugly step backward, and we're just not going to stand for it!"

    So we indeed have come to a point where the last 10 years, for better or for worse, have spawned big time race related discussions where our country's good side is in attendance as much as its ugly side.

    It is with great resistance that the "And Justice for All" side is doing whatever possible to take back this country, and resume in back to its right track that it was originally trying to stay on with the true peaceful guidance of our former leader.

    The only good thing that I can say about our present leader (and it's no applause for him personally) is that with his true bigoted ugly way, he is provoking advocates of fairness to stand up louder than ever before to say "We are just not going to take this anymore".

    He has been met with tons of criticism, and the complete lack of respect that he has been served is all a reaction to the complete lack of respect that he has offered. If we are to move forward the only thanks to him is that his extreme nuttiness has prompted it.

  10. #25
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    You are trying to get your crown back...

    What you expressed is one way to look at it.

    Here's another: I was truly happy to see that Barack Obama was elected, though I did not vote for him because of his stated policies. I am a conservative and Obama was about as far left as we'd seen in a viable candidate for the presidency. I was happy because i think it truly marked a turning point in America. An African-American could grow up to be President! That made me proud of our country and how far it had come. I was moved by the live video of Jesse Jackson in the post-election celebration in the park in Illinois with tears steaming down his face because of that historic moment. He represented to me all those who had striven for racial equality in our country up to that point. Obama was elected to a second term. This means many white people voted for him twice. I celebrate that fact.

    It is not fair or accurate to characterize opposition to Barack Obama as being motivated by underlying racism. I don't doubt that some were motivated that way. But the vast majority of conservatives were motivated to vote against him because of his bent towards socialism. I opposed Bill Clinton, John Kerry, HRC, etc. in a long line of consistent behavior (mine) demonstrating that I vote and act based on conservative principles. Barack Obama told us he wanted to fundamentally change America. He talked about what that would look like in terms of policy, and then he acted on that. My opposition to him before the election was based on what he said he would do. My opposition to him during his term was because of what he was trying to do that I did not agree with. The increase of government control in many areas of life was disturbing to me. My opposition was based on conservative principles not racism. By the way, I opposed Trump because he was not a conservative, in my view, along with other reasons upon which I suspect you and I would agree.

    George W was treated as roughly and unfairly by the media and many others as any President I've seen. Plus, circumstances outside of his control seemed to conspire against him--911 and Katrina. He is responsible for how he handled them but geesh... talk about piling on of the crises. Bush was called dumb and he was portrayed as incompetent. He was openly mocked and disrespected on many levels. He was blamed for the weather. Every negative thing that could be said about him was said whether it was fair criticism or not. In comparison, Obama was given a pass by those who control the main stream media, which influences greatly the thinking of many of us.

    It simply is not true that people who opposed President Obama did so because of underlying racist attitudes and any conversation that begins with that as an assumption completely prejudices the whole attempt and is a non-starter.

    To have a discussion on race issues we have to come together with goodwill and listen to one another. That means that when there is push-back, we have to be willing to consider the counter point being made. Perhaps the hardest part will be to agree on a set of facts. For instance, whether there is evidence to demonstrate that the police unjustly shoot African-American males at a higher rate than other races. There are many other factors that then need to be considered to determine if the set of data indicates if racism played a role or not.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Ball-fan View Post
    Many would never admit out loud (though I certainly have heard too many to count who have) that they weren't on board with having a black president, and used every opportunity imaginable to express this, even if only done so by criticizing him without specifying their true underlying objection. While some would claim that this had nothing to do with it, many could see through it loud and clear.
    From my viewpoint, what came out of this is that, as a white male, I couldn't criticize the president without being considered racist. Let me perfectly clear, I have no problem with there being a black president. Just like I have no problem with there being a woman president. But, I did not vote for Obama. And I did not vote for Hillary. It had nothing to do with their race or gender. It was their politics. I'd have gladly voted for Colin Powell if he had ever thrown his hat in the ring. Same with Condi Rice. And I was firmly behind Ben Carson in this last go round. The problem was/is, some people like to paint with a broad brush, and are quick to move people like me into a category with some others who, as you indicated, WERE uncomfortable with having a black president.

    I hate when people generalize. I hated when Kaepernick wore the socks inferring that police are pigs. Hated it. Are there situations where that may very well be true? Absolutely. And that needs to be seriously addressed. But there are also a lot of very fine men and woman who risk their lives on a daily basis who are not. And to group them in with the others is just as wrong.

    I wish people would speak to specifics.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CincySportsFan View Post
    From my viewpoint, what came out of this is that, as a white male, I couldn't criticize the president without being considered racist. Let me perfectly clear, I have no problem with there being a black president. Just like I have no problem with there being a woman president. But, I did not vote for Obama. And I did not vote for Hillary. It had nothing to do with their race or gender. It was their politics. I'd have gladly voted for Colin Powell if he had ever thrown his hat in the ring. Same with Condi Rice. And I was firmly behind Ben Carson in this last go round. The problem was/is, some people like to paint with a broad brush, and are quick to move people like me into a category with some others who, as you indicated, WERE uncomfortable with having a black president.

    I hate when people generalize. I hated when Kaepernick wore the socks inferring that police are pigs. Hated it. Are there situations where that may very well be true? Absolutely. And that needs to be seriously addressed. But there are also a lot of very fine men and woman who risk their lives on a daily basis who are not. And to group them in with the others is just as wrong.

    I wish people would speak to specifics.
    Good luck not being labeled a racist.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgrappler View Post
    You are trying to get your crown back...

    What you expressed is one way to look at it.

    Here's another: I was truly happy to see that Barack Obama was elected, though I did not vote for him because of his stated policies. I am a conservative and Obama was about as far left as we'd seen in a viable candidate for the presidency. I was happy because i think it truly marked a turning point in America. An African-American could grow up to be President! That made me proud of our country and how far it had come. I was moved by the live video of Jesse Jackson in the post-election celebration in the park in Illinois with tears steaming down his face because of that historic moment. He represented to me all those who had striven for racial equality in our country up to that point. Obama was elected to a second term. This means many white people voted for him twice. I celebrate that fact.

    It is not fair or accurate to characterize opposition to Barack Obama as being motivated by underlying racism. I don't doubt that some were motivated that way. But the vast majority of conservatives were motivated to vote against him because of his bent towards socialism. I opposed Bill Clinton, John Kerry, HRC, etc. in a long line of consistent behavior (mine) demonstrating that I vote and act based on conservative principles. Barack Obama told us he wanted to fundamentally change America. He talked about what that would look like in terms of policy, and then he acted on that. My opposition to him before the election was based on what he said he would do. My opposition to him during his term was because of what he was trying to do that I did not agree with. The increase of government control in many areas of life was disturbing to me. My opposition was based on conservative principles not racism. By the way, I opposed Trump because he was not a conservative, in my view, along with other reasons upon which I suspect you and I would agree.

    George W was treated as roughly and unfairly by the media and many others as any President I've seen. Plus, circumstances outside of his control seemed to conspire against him--911 and Katrina. He is responsible for how he handled them but geesh... talk about piling on of the crises. Bush was called dumb and he was portrayed as incompetent. He was openly mocked and disrespected on many levels. He was blamed for the weather. Every negative thing that could be said about him was said whether it was fair criticism or not. In comparison, Obama was given a pass by those who control the main stream media, which influences greatly the thinking of many of us.

    It simply is not true that people who opposed President Obama did so because of underlying racist attitudes and any conversation that begins with that as an assumption completely prejudices the whole attempt and is a non-starter.

    To have a discussion on race issues we have to come together with goodwill and listen to one another. That means that when there is push-back, we have to be willing to consider the counter point being made. Perhaps the hardest part will be to agree on a set of facts. For instance, whether there is evidence to demonstrate that the police unjustly shoot African-American males at a higher rate than other races. There are many other factors that then need to be considered to determine if the set of data indicates if racism played a role or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by CincySportsFan View Post
    From my viewpoint, what came out of this is that, as a white male, I couldn't criticize the president without being considered racist. Let me perfectly clear, I have no problem with there being a black president. Just like I have no problem with there being a woman president. But, I did not vote for Obama. And I did not vote for Hillary. It had nothing to do with their race or gender. It was their politics. I'd have gladly voted for Colin Powell if he had ever thrown his hat in the ring. Same with Condi Rice. And I was firmly behind Ben Carson in this last go round. The problem was/is, some people like to paint with a broad brush, and are quick to move people like me into a category with some others who, as you indicated, WERE uncomfortable with having a black president.

    I hate when people generalize. I hated when Kaepernick wore the socks inferring that police are pigs. Hated it. Are there situations where that may very well be true? Absolutely. And that needs to be seriously addressed. But there are also a lot of very fine men and woman who risk their lives on a daily basis who are not. And to group them in with the others is just as wrong.

    I wish people would speak to specifics.
    Point taken, and I believe that it's important that you both have balanced out what I have said to also include your take, which would I'm sure represent many like the two of you with regards to what you have described.

    With that said, I do believe there is a lot of truth in what I have said. My apologies if it came across as a broad stroke, but it does indeed represent a significant portion of the new president's base.

    Some people such as yourself can eloquently and diplomatically present your viewpoint where it shows true concern for understanding and fairness, while many others can be so harsh in their stance that they're way too close to themselves to even notice just how bigoted they appear to be.

    They will say they're not, but then every comment that follows makes it clear that they are. With some they can barely talk about racism without instinctively building some baseless defenses, or at least defenses that don't come anywhere near having the weight to them to justify their prejudices that they'll deny that they have when it's quite apparent that they do have.

    I get what you're saying if you're frustrated when being unfairly categorized as something that you're not, and I hear this loud and clear, and emphasize that you personally have experienced this. It's not your fault that there are those types of which I speak, nor should you feel responsible for their ignorance, or be tossed into the same kettle with them.

    My apologies again if what I have said has been taken personally by anyone who it doesn't fit, but I do believe that there are those who it does indeed describe, from the extreme to even not so extreme, and gives merit to my take on at least how I have personally recognized racial relations in this country over the last 10 years, and my feelings towards how many others have approached or perceived the topic as well.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Ball-fan View Post
    My apologies again if what I have said has been taken personally by anyone who it doesn't fit, but I do believe that there are those who it does indeed describe, from the extreme to even not so extreme, and gives merit to my take on at least how I have personally recognized racial relations in this country over the last 10 years, and my feelings towards how many others have approached or perceived the topic as well.
    I can't speak for OldGrappler, but you're good with me. That's what I like about BGP, is that there's an opportunity for an exchange of ideas and viewpoints. I'm approaching 50 years old, so some may say I am probably set in my ways by this time. But, I feel that I am still open to at least hearing the other side (whatever it may be). We should never too old to stop learning.

  15. #30
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    taking a knee during the National Anthem is never appropriate. Find another way to voice your opinion.

    36 U.S. Code SS 31 - National anthem | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

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