State Senator weighs in

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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    If these travesties pass I think that it will be important to let all members of the legislature know that we vote and will be watching what they do to rotect all children. I hope that the elected members of the Jefferson County Board of Education aren't too attached to their jobs. These proposals are an assault on Catholic education. At a time when the public schools should be looking at ways to improve their own product, they are instead trying to damage the alternative. Any members of the political class that doesn't stand up to stop this nonsense will earn my everlasting disdain.
    First of all I am not for prop 20.Why is this an assault of Catholic education.If it passes how will it affect the education of students.Are you thinking maybe some of the great athletes you now attract with the great education card will not now attend because they won't be able to play against anyone but private schools in the tournaments.If that is it then they must come there to play sports first and then get an education second.
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milfordflash
    First of all I am not for prop 20.Why is this an assault of Catholic education.If it passes how will it affect the education of students.Are you thinking maybe some of the great athletes you now attract with the great education card will not now attend because they won't be able to play against anyone but private schools in the tournaments.If that is it then they must come there to play sports first and then get an education second.
    If you read what I posted you would know that I postulated four legs under Catholic education. Then I said that I believe that the JCPS are attempting an assault on two of the four legs. The reasons why a student and his or her parents choose a school are none of my business and none of yours. Snide comments about parents that find discrimination against their children in sports offensive placing the value of an education second are illogical and do little to further the discussion. It isn't about what you value, it is about treating our children fairly.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    If you read what I posted you would know that I postulated four legs under Catholic education. Then I said that I believe that the JCPS are attempting an assault on two of the four legs. The reasons why a student and his or her parents choose a school are none of my business and none of yours. Snide comments about parents that find discrimination against their children in sports offensive placing the value of an education second are illogical and do little to further the discussion. It isn't about what you value, it is about treating our children fairly.
    Are you saying you can't get a good education public or private without athletics?I always thought that they were extra curricular and one could get an education without playing any sport.Tell me how this is an assault on Catholic education?Maybe an assault on private schools athletics.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    There are a lot of different reasons why people choose a private school, but I think that in general they fall into four categories academic, athletic, discipline and religious:

    Academic: The JCPS have segregated top students into Manual and Male. That gives them the ability to argue that JCPS are "just as good as the private schools. The part they leave out is that for every top school they create they also allow some really bad schools to exist.

    Athletic: They tried to create an athletic powerhouse at Male by providing it with top notch facilities at the same time other schools (Central) had no facilities. While Male has been very successful, they still can't pass the big private schools. So now the JCPS will vote to kick the private schools out.

    I see this as an assault on the Catholic schools. They are trying to saw off two legs of a four legged stool. Rather than trying to improve all of their schools they are creating a couple of show schools so that they can make the claim that they are competing. What I don't understand is why the have not schools allow themselves to be used like this. If they kick out the private schools, the have not schools will not do any better. They will just lose to one of the chosen public schools. I'm telling you, these people will pay at the ballot box.
    I disagree with your claims.

    1) The JCPS has not segregated top students into Manual and Male. That implies that they have shorted all of the other schools of the "good" students, while intentionally enriching Male and Manual with the best and brightest. There are many other schools with Advanced Program classes (Ballard, Eastern, PRP, Seneca, et al) that score very well on standardized tests, produce a high number of National Merit Semifinalists, and send a comparable percentage of their graduates on to college. The opportunity to attend one of these high schools is extended to anyone who is inclined to take advantage of it. It is laughable for someone to imply that certain students are "held down" in situations where they cannot get a good education to help advance the argument that there are "anti-Catholic" undercurrents in the KHSAA proposals.

    2) You claim that Male was endowed by JCPS with disproportionally large athletic facilities in the hope of creating an athletic powerhouse. We can debate whether the reasons for this were as you state or because of other factors, but let's be honest and not hypocritical here: Regarding athletics, why is it that Trinity and X are in the process of building multimillion dollar state-of-the-art athletic facilities (with Archdiocese support) while lesser schools like DeSales are allowed to wither on the vine and others (Holy Cross, for example) see nary a penny? Could it be that, in the interest of marketing its two flagship boys schools through athletics, the Archdiocese has decided not to dilute their dominance by strongly supporting the other providers of Catholic boys education in Jefferson County? I'm sure the answer that comes back will talk about the waning interest in Catholic education in the communities surrounding DeSales and Holy Cross or demographic shifts toward the East end or some such nonsense. But I find it interesting that while Trinity and St X draw students from 13 different counties (some undoubtedly closer to DeSales and Holy Cross), these two schools are not showered with similar facility upgrades. Why is that?

  5. #20

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    How exactly are alumni donations and private doners equivalent to Archdiocese support? The Archdiocese of Louisville provided NO money to Trinity for their new athletic facilties and the same goes for St.x. Trinity is not part of the Archdiocese anymore and hasn't been for some time now. Yes they are still Catholic, but they are not a subsidiary of the diocese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H
    I disagree with your claims.

    1) The JCPS has not segregated top students into Manual and Male. That implies that they have shorted all of the other schools of the "good" students, while intentionally enriching Male and Manual with the best and brightest. There are many other schools with Advanced Program classes (Ballard, Eastern, PRP, Seneca, et al) that score very well on standardized tests, produce a high number of National Merit Semifinalists, and send a comparable percentage of their graduates on to college. The opportunity to attend one of these high schools is extended to anyone who is inclined to take advantage of it. It is laughable for someone to imply that certain students are "held down" in situations where they cannot get a good education to help advance the argument that there are "anti-Catholic" undercurrents in the KHSAA proposals.

    2) You claim that Male was endowed by JCPS with disproportionally large athletic facilities in the hope of creating an athletic powerhouse. We can debate whether the reasons for this were as you state or because of other factors, but let's be honest and not hypocritical here: Regarding athletics, why is it that Trinity and X are in the process of building multimillion dollar state-of-the-art athletic facilities (with Archdiocese support) while lesser schools like DeSales are allowed to wither on the vine and others (Holy Cross, for example) see nary a penny? Could it be that, in the interest of marketing its two flagship boys schools through athletics, the Archdiocese has decided not to dilute their dominance by strongly supporting the other providers of Catholic boys education in Jefferson County? I'm sure the answer that comes back will talk about the waning interest in Catholic education in the communities surrounding DeSales and Holy Cross or demographic shifts toward the East end or some such nonsense. But I find it interesting that while Trinity and St X draw students from 13 different counties (some undoubtedly closer to DeSales and Holy Cross), these two schools are not showered with similar facility upgrades. Why is that?
    To specifically address the bolded statements:

    Trinity and X have raised, or are raising the money for their facilities upgrades, both academically and athletically speaking, via donations from their students, alumni, parents and supporters. No one's being "allowed" to become flagships. The are creating themselves.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milfordflash
    Are you saying you can't get a good education public or private without athletics?I always thought that they were extra curricular and one could get an education without playing any sport.Tell me how this is an assault on Catholic education?Maybe an assault on private schools athletics.
    Of course you can get a good education public or private without athletics. A lot of kids do. Some kids don't like sports and they excel in theatre or music or the chess club. But the fact of the matter is that Trinity and St. X defeat their public counterparts in football more often than not, and that's what has the publics' panties in a wad. Why is it we never hear about Ballard beating Trinity most of the time in basketball? Or PRP always being very good in baseball? Where, oh where, is the outrage there???

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    Its the best in the county because JCPS wants it to be.
    Nope. It's because the students and the parents want it to be...

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    You got to be kidding Ram. It is because they can be selective with who they bring into their school. Other publics can't. JCPS allows them to be selective in who they bring in and get rid of. You all have no boundaries besides Jefferson County. You get the brightest in JC. Students and parents want it to be. You are crazy. Who's got half a brain that can tell this kid right. Trinity Alum? Go over this again for him.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PepRock01
    How exactly are alumni donations and private doners equivalent to Archdiocese support? The Archdiocese of Louisville provided NO money to Trinity for their new athletic facilties and the same goes for St.x. Trinity is not part of the Archdiocese anymore and hasn't been for some time now. Yes they are still Catholic, but they are not a subsidiary of the diocese.
    I stand corrected on my comment that St X's new capital project has Archdiocese funding. However, Trinity has received $4.8 million from the Archdiocese for its capital projects according to multiple reports in the Courier-Journal. Although that money is earmarked for property acquisition and to construct academic buildings, given the fact that DeSales and Holy Cross appear to be in much greater need of upgrade, I find it curious that such a large sum would be given to Trinity--a school that can evidently raise millions privately for discretionary purposes like athletic facility upgrades.

    Sources: Courier-Journal articles dated September 10 and December 10, 2003.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    Just one good athletic school? Hmmm, some one forgot to give Manual the memo. We'll have to yank those soccer, volleyball, CC, swimming and other teams that are some of the top in the state. Oh, and our football team's alright.

    There are certainly more than two good academic school in JCPS. Seneca, Central, Eastern and others are strong choices, particularly in specific programs. We just have one school that's one of the best in the county, so the dazzling brilliance might throw you off.

    As to the anti-Catholic excuse, that's all it is. This thing needs Louisville to pass, and Louisville doesn't have an anti-Catholic bias (anymore.) Things are different other places, I'm sure.
    Curious HOW Manual could possibly compete with the private schools, especially in those "Country Club Sports" like swimming, volleyball, soccer, etc.??

  12. #27
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    Am I the only one that's noticed that 90% of the discussion on these threads centers on Louisville area schools and athletics?? Does anyone on the public side realize this isn't all about Trinity, X and Assumption?? For every X you ban, there's 10 Calvery Christian's and Villa Madonna's who won't become regional powers!!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    You got to be kidding Ram. It is because they can be selective with who they bring into their school. Other publics can't. JCPS allows them to be selective in who they bring in and get rid of. You all have no boundaries besides Jefferson County. You get the brightest in JC. Students and parents want it to be. You are crazy. Who's got half a brain that can tell this kid right. Trinity Alum? Go over this again for him.
    Please refrain from this type of post. There is no reason to get personal. 02Ram54 is a man not a kid, nor is he crazy and if you want to debate him then I am sure that he will be more than happy to comply. I assume you meet your own requirements.

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    I am pleased that Sen. Shaughnassy has taken an interest in this matter and I hope that others in state government do so. I believe there is an element of bigotry involved although I don't necessarily believe it is aimed at Catholics. Instead, I believe the bigotry is being levied against private schools and their students per se.
    As I read the posts in many of these public/private threads, I am amazed at the hostility posted by both sides but particularly by many public school supporters against the Catholic schools of Louisville. The conclusion is obvious. These publics are jealous of the success of the Louisville Catholic schools. Of course, the obvious solution is for the publics to work harder and produce better teams. However, in this day of political correctness, social promotion, and no child left behind, the solid principle of hard work to earn success is no longer a part of the public equation.
    In the end, why do the publics want proposal 20? It is the quickest and easiest way for them to "succeed". After all, if you can't beat them, outlaw them. "Dumbing down" is much easier than striving to raise your standards. And that, fellow posters, is the real reason for proposal 20 because it has nothing to do with imaginary "unfair advantages".

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    You got to be kidding Ram. It is because they can be selective with who they bring into their school. Other publics can't. JCPS allows them to be selective in who they bring in and get rid of. You all have no boundaries besides Jefferson County. You get the brightest in JC. Students and parents want it to be. You are crazy. Who's got half a brain that can tell this kid right. Trinity Alum? Go over this again for him.
    No matter what JCPS wants or desires Manual to be, it is the students and their parents that ultimately decide where the best and brightest will attend. If parents placed a higher priority on Traditional schooling methods, Manual wouldn't even enter the debate. I say again


    Students and parents


    are the ones that decide which schools get the best students, whether they live in an open enrollment, advanced program centers, or community based public schools system. Look up at NKY right now, where the influential are working to get their neighborhood 'annexed' a different school system that is perceived to be superior.

    Just because you build it does NOT mean they will come.

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