Public vs. Private: Ohio-style

  1. #1

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    Public vs. Private: Ohio-style

    Unlike our neighbor Tennessee to the South, our neighbor Ohio to the North does not have separate classes (other than by size).

    Observe the following:

    AP Ohio D1 Football Rankings (largest schools)

    1. (Private) Cin. St. X
    2. (Public) Cleve. Glenville
    3. (Public) Can. McKinley
    4. (Public) Mas. Washington
    5. (Public) Cin. Colerain
    6. (Private) Cin. Moeller
    7. (Private) Lakewood St. Eds.
    8. (Private) Cle. St. Ig
    9. (Public) Hudson
    10.(Public) Centerville

    AP Ohio D6 Football Rankings (smallest schools)

    1. (Private) Delphos St. Johns
    2. (Public) Dola Hardin North
    3. (Private) Steb. Cent. Cath.
    4. (Private) Lancan. Fisher Cath.
    5. (Private) Springfield Cent. Cath
    6. (Public) Mechanicsburg
    7. (Public) Col. Grove
    8. (Public) Liberty Center
    9. (Private) Newark Cath.
    10. (Public) Cle. Cuy. Heights


    And not to forget the Girls Sports side:

    Ohio AP D1 Volleyball Rankings:

    1. (Private) Tol. St. Ursula
    2. (Private) Cin. Mt. ND
    3. (Private) Rocky Mt. Magnificant
    4. (Private) Cin. Ursuline Acad.
    5. (Public) Eylria
    6. (Private) Cin Seton
    7. (Private) Tol. Cent. Cath.
    8. (Public) Findlay
    9. (Public) Cin. Walnut Hills
    10. (Private) Cin. St. Ursula Acad.


    Would this be a problem in KY and lead to separate classes?

    Would a separation of Public/ Private be feasible in Ohio?

    Is this an optimal situation for the best in competition?

    Your Thoughts
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    It would be interesting to know out of those public schools how many are from a)affluent communities; b)large metro areas; or c)rural counties. It would be also interesting to note whether any of the private schools are from rural areas or from suburbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    It would be interesting to know out of those public schools how many are from a)affluent communities; b)large metro areas; or c)rural counties. It would be also interesting to note whether any of the private schools are from rural areas or from suburbs.
    Yes, it would be interesting.

    Although I would caution that sometimes it would be hard to pull a conclusion from. For example, Cincinnati Elder (Boys) and Seton (Girls) sit next to each other on Glenway Ave. in Lower Price Hill maybe 3 miles from Downtown Cincinnati but most of their kids do not come from that area. And just another 3 miles away areas of Upper Price Hill and Delhi would be considered affluent and that is where they draw from.

    Kind of the same way with some KY schools. And Ohio has some truly rural areas but not as much as KY.

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    I believe that eligibility in ohio is usually not an issue, I beleive if you enroll in a school you are eligible to play there with no questions asked. I could be wrong but if I am correct this would explain the increased parity.

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    By my count, private schools have won 20 of the 33 state titles in Ohio's biggest division (once Class 3A, now known as Division I) ... those 20 championships are divided among five schools (most of them by Moeller and St. Ignatius).

    In Kentucky, the privates (Trinity, St. Xavier and Flaget) have won 29 of 46.

    Basically, the same thing is happening in both states. A small number of large Catholic schools is winning a disproportionate share of state titles.

    A private school division in Ohio would be more feasible only because they have more urban areas and more private schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    By my count, private schools have won 20 of the 33 state titles in Ohio's biggest division (once Class 3A, now known as Division I) ... those 20 championships are divided among five schools (most of them by Moeller and St. Ignatius).

    In Kentucky, the privates (Trinity, St. Xavier and Flaget) have won 29 of 46.

    Basically, the same thing is happening in both states. A small number of large Catholic schools is winning a disproportionate share of state titles.

    A private school division in Ohio would be more feasible only because they have more urban areas and more private schools.

    I wonder if Ohio would hesitate to go to a Private/ Public split because economically it would be a disaster for the public schools in so far as athletic monies are concerned. By that I mean the large number of private schools would make forming leagues no problem especially in large cities like Cleveland or Cincinnati.

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Play No Work
    I wonder if Ohio would hesitate to go to a Private/ Public split because economically it would be a disaster for the public schools in so far as athletic monies are concerned. By that I mean the large number of private schools would make forming leagues no problem especially in large cities like Cleveland or Cincinnati.
    You have this backwards my friend.

    The publics are already in leagues. Look at the GMC (Greater Miami Conference) with Colerain, Lakota East & West, Hamilton, Milford, Sycamore, Fairfield, etc. Also look at the SOPL, FAVC and GWOC. The leagues for publics go on and on.

    Now, on the flip side, look at private schools. They aren't in leagues at all, or very few, because there aren't enough of them in generally the same geographic region to even form a league.

    If it was as simple as you suggest, the GCL would have done that years ago. Actually, they did! Then, the smaller GCL schools (McNicholas, Alter, Dayton CJ, Roger Bacon, etc.) were so sick and tired of getting their collective heads beat in that they decided to stop scheduling the Moeller's, Elder's and St. Xavier's and created their own division, the GCL North.

    Splitting Ohio between public/non-public would absolutely destroy the non-publics, no question. They already have to travel all over God's green earth just to fill their schedule, this sort of decision would dessimate them.

    -CardinalsFan

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalsFan
    You have this backwards my friend.

    The publics are already in leagues. Look at the GMC (Greater Miami Conference) with Colerain, Lakota East & West, Hamilton, Milford, Sycamore, Fairfield, etc. Also look at the SOPL, FAVC and GWOC. The leagues for publics go on and on.

    Now, on the flip side, look at private schools. They aren't in leagues at all, or very few, because there aren't enough of them in generally the same geographic region to even form a league.

    If it was as simple as you suggest, the GCL would have done that years ago. Actually, they did! Then, the smaller GCL schools (McNicholas, Alter, Dayton CJ, Roger Bacon, etc.) were so sick and tired of getting their collective heads beat in that they decided to stop scheduling the Moeller's, Elder's and St. Xavier's and created their own division, the GCL North.

    Splitting Ohio between public/non-public would absolutely destroy the non-publics, no question. They already have to travel all over God's green earth just to fill their schedule, this sort of decision would dessimate them.

    -CardinalsFan
    My point is that for example all Ohio Catholic schools are already in leagues unlike KY Catholic schools. The GCL South and North already exist and other private schools such as Summitt Country Day could be added to already existing leagues.

    How would splitting Ohio destroy the non-publics? They are already traveling to KY and Indiana to find games although that has more to do with Harbin points than it does anything else. I'm quite confident that a McNick would have no problem losing 7 out of 10 to LaSalle if it didn't cost them a playoff spot.

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    CardinalsFan

    What is your thoughts on a public/private split in Ohio or KY? Considering "your school" is a public school that is every bit as good as, if not better than, the private schools in Ohio I would assume you would be strongly against such an idea???

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguru
    CardinalsFan

    What is your thoughts on a public/private split in Ohio or KY? Considering "your school" is a public school that is every bit as good as, if not better than, the private schools in Ohio I would assume you would be strongly against such an idea???
    I think it is a very decisive issue that has many, many split.

    Suprisingly, I am not against a split in Ohio. KY, on the other hand, I am not sold on just yet.

    Ohio has the population that we could afford to do it. The bottom-line is that the non-publics play by a different set of rules, plain and simple. They are allowed to recruit (because they "have" to, or so they say) and pull from geographic areas that are outside their natural boundaries. It happens and cannot be stopped.

    As for KY, it's a little different. If you split public/non-public, who would Trinity and St. Xavier play every year? What other NON-PUBLIC 4A schools are there in the state? Isn't the next biggest non-public Lex. Catholic, a solid 3A school? It just wouldn't work, on many levels.

    Hope that answers your question. Both sides have strong arguments and while I think in theory it is prudent to separate the two, sometimes in practice it is entirely different.

    -CardinalsFan

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalsFan
    I think it is a very decisive issue that has many, many split.

    Suprisingly, I am not against a split in Ohio. KY, on the other hand, I am not sold on just yet.

    Ohio has the population that we could afford to do it. The bottom-line is that the non-publics play by a different set of rules, plain and simple. They are allowed to recruit (because they "have" to, or so they say) and pull from geographic areas that are outside their natural boundaries. It happens and cannot be stopped.

    As for KY, it's a little different. If you split public/non-public, who would Trinity and St. Xavier play every year? What other NON-PUBLIC 4A schools are there in the state? Isn't the next biggest non-public Lex. Catholic, a solid 3A school? It just wouldn't work, on many levels.

    Hope that answers your question. Both sides have strong arguments and while I think in theory it is prudent to separate the two, sometimes in practice it is entirely different.

    -CardinalsFan
    I'm guessing Colerain is your team. But don't some other schools from the GMC accuse Colerain of the same things KY fans accuse Highlands and Beechwood of? Don't they draw from all over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStud
    I'm guessing Colerain is your team. But don't some other schools from the GMC accuse Colerain of the same things KY fans accuse Highlands and Beechwood of? Don't they draw from all over?
    Colerain is my team.

    No, other schools in the GMC do not accuse us of drawing from all over. Mainly because, we dont.

    Colerain is one of two high schools in the Northwest Local School District. The other is Northwest High School. It is a big district and wherever you live in the district doesn't matter in terms of which high school you choose to go to.

    Colerain does NOT benefit like Highlands and Beechwood (? new one on me) do, as you are thinking. We have less than 2 a year, and they usually seldom have any impact whatsoever.

    -CardinalsFan

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalsFan
    Colerain is my team.

    No, other schools in the GMC do not accuse us of drawing from all over. Mainly because, we dont.

    Colerain is one of two high schools in the Northwest Local School District. The other is Northwest High School. It is a big district and wherever you live in the district doesn't matter in terms of which high school you choose to go to.

    Colerain does NOT benefit like Highlands and Beechwood (? new one on me) do, as you are thinking. We have less than 2 a year, and they usually seldom have any impact whatsoever.

    -CardinalsFan
    I just browse on Yappi and thats the impression I got.

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    I would not consider the Colerain area affluent...a very dense population for sure...be interesting to know what the real impact of results are relative to a communities so called social ranking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalsFan
    Hope that answers your question. Both sides have strong arguments and while I think in theory it is prudent to separate the two, sometimes in practice it is entirely different.

    -CardinalsFan
    Not really, I was thinking a little different about it. If I was a Colerain fan I would never want to dilute the competition because Colerain has shown with the right program/coaching/support/etc. they can be as good as if not better than most private powerhouses year in and year out.

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