Public School Closures - Teacher Protest

Page 20 of Closings all over the state today. This will be interesting.... 351 comments | 8560 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    As as are most jobs that aren’t brain surgery. I’m sure you expect people to respect your knowledge and skill at whatever it is you do. You are hell bent on belittling the skills needed to teach. The impression you give is you feel it is very low in the hierarchy of professions.
    I never implied or said anything remotely close to that. I simply said you can't compare teaching to most jobs because it's different with different motivation . In fact I specifically said I respect what they do. I can disagree and still respect what they do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIPTON BASH View Post
    I don't know what you do for a living. So maybe teaching is harder than your job.
    So I been reading a lot of your comments. Have you taught before? So unless you have you really have no idea, so can't act like you know. To be fair if someone doesn't work in the private sector they wouldn't know.

    However the comment I found most hilarious is you saying teachers can easily be replaced. Who do you want to replace them? So you basically trust anyone and everyone to be able to handle 20 to 30 kids and getting them to behave, while also trying to educate them. You trust any person to teach and be able to handle 20 to 30 kids, when some times just dealing with one child at home stresses two parents out. You trust basically anyone to do all the extra work teachers do outside of the school day, work that they don't get paid for or overtime for. Teachers work more technically overtime hours than almost any profession but don't get paid for that. Yet people don't like to acknowledge that, because they just see teachers get summers off. You don't get to see how even during the summers teachers are asked to make new curriculum maps for the year, break down data, go to professional developments during the summer. So in reality teachers maybe get 1 month off which is only 2 more weeks off than a regular job that gives you mayne only 2 weeks vacation. With that said many of those jobs at least will pay overtime for all the extra hours after work day hours.

    I could keep going but I know it doesn't matter because yeah to you anyone can teach based off your teachers could easily be replaced. It's not like teaching ranks as one of the top burn out jobs or anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIPTON BASH View Post
    I never implied or said anything remotely close to that. I simply said you can't compare teaching to most jobs because it's different with different motivation . In fact I specifically said I respect what they do. I can disagree and still respect what they do.
    No you did say that in your teachers can be easily replaced comment.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    No you did say that in your teachers can be easily replaced comment.
    I learned along time ago almost everyone is replacable in most fields or jobs, including myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    No you did say that in your teachers can be easily replaced comment.
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  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    So I been reading a lot of your comments. Have you taught before? So unless you have you really have no idea, so can't act like you know. To be fair if someone doesn't work in the private sector they wouldn't know.

    However the comment I found most hilarious is you saying teachers can easily be replaced. Who do you want to replace them? So you basically trust anyone and everyone to be able to handle 20 to 30 kids and getting them to behave, while also trying to educate them. You trust any person to teach and be able to handle 20 to 30 kids, when some times just dealing with one child at home stresses two parents out. You trust basically anyone to do all the extra work teachers do outside of the school day, work that they don't get paid for or overtime for. Teachers work more technically overtime hours than almost any profession but don't get paid for that. Yet people don't like to acknowledge that, because they just see teachers get summers off. You don't get to see how even during the summers teachers are asked to make new curriculum maps for the year, break down data, go to professional developments during the summer. So in reality teachers maybe get 1 month off which is only 2 more weeks off than a regular job that gives you mayne only 2 weeks vacation. With that said many of those jobs at least will pay overtime for all the extra hours after work day hours.

    I could keep going but I know it doesn't matter because yeah to you anyone can teach based off your teachers could easily be replaced. It's not like teaching ranks as one of the top burn out jobs or anything.
    At any job if you want to be sucessful and advance you are working longer hours than 9-5. I spent first 7 years of my career working mostly 10-12 hour days to hopefully get where I am now. I know teachers work hard and I respect them for it. But so do millions of people working in the private sector.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIPTON BASH View Post
    At any job if you want to be sucessful and advance you are working longer hours than 9-5. I spent first 7 years of my career working mostly 10-12 hour days to hopefully get where I am now. I know teachers work hard and I respect them for it. But so do millions of people working in the private sector.
    If it helps my wife starts work at 7:30 and typically stays til 4:30 or 5:00 each day. Been doing it for 25 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIPTON BASH View Post
    I learned along time ago almost everyone is replacable in most fields or jobs, including myself.
    That is what is different about being a teacher. And why you shouldn't say they can easily be replaced. Imo it's kind of sad that basically you would be fine with anyone replacing teachers to teach our kids. America is in bad shape if you feel like teachers can easily be replaced and kids still get a good education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach View Post
    That is what is different about being a teacher. And why you shouldn't say they can easily be replaced. Imo it's kind of sad that basically you would be fine with anyone replacing teachers to teach our kids. America is in bad shape if you feel like teachers can easily be replaced and kids still get a good education.
    Why is there so much hyperbole. I think most people in most fields of work unless highly specialized are replaceable. I'm replaceable. Doesn't mean I think all or most teachers should be replaced.

    I try to view every situation from a logical and not emotional one. I get this affects some of you in this thread so it is emotional for you and hard to do that. I just tried to offer a different view point that many people have on this issue. But if you don't fall in line your attacked for hating teachers.

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    Can't stand Bevin, but let's not act like teachers have it all that bad. I mean you could literally retire at the age of 49, have a nice retirement, and still work another job/ go back into teaching somewhere else.

    Fall Break, Spring Break, Thanksgiving Break, Christmas Break, Summer Break. You can't tell me a teacher fresh out of school can't find 5 weeks to just say "Nope not dealing with school, going to do something for myself" I can only do that a few times a year. I have to work the majority of holidays. I appreciate what teachers have done for me, but not every teacher I had was a good one.

    We have to a tendency to sharpen our pitchforks nowadays before looking into anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIPTON BASH View Post
    Why is there so much hyperbole. I think most people in most fields of work unless highly specialized are replaceable. I'm replaceable. Doesn't mean I think all or most teachers should be replaced.

    I try to view every situation from a logical and not emotional one. I get this affects some of you in this thread so it is emotional for you and hard to do that. I just tried to offer a different view point that many people have on this issue. But if you don't fall in line your attacked for hating teachers.
    No your comment saying all teachers could be replaced said it all.

    Btw who do you think taught you what hyperbole even means...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuttlesworth View Post
    Can't stand Bevin, but let's not act like teachers have it all that bad. I mean you could literally retire at the age of 49, have a nice retirement, and still work another job/ go back into teaching somewhere else.

    Fall Break, Spring Break, Thanksgiving Break, Christmas Break, Summer Break. You can't tell me a teacher fresh out of school can't find 5 weeks to just say "Nope not dealing with school, going to do something for myself" I can only do that a few times a year. I have to work the majority of holidays. I appreciate what teachers have done for me, but not every teacher I had was a good one.

    We have to a tendency to sharpen our pitchforks nowadays before looking into anything.
    All those things you stated is why teachers deal with not making much money. For being in debt because of it being mandatory to get at least a master's. A teacher can be a great teacher but doesn't mean they ever would get a raise for a job well done no matter how good they do or for how long. To get a decent jump in salary you have to then pay money to get another masters to get that raise. Teachers probably work longer hours than majority of jobs but don't get overtime pay for those hours like other jobs.

    Yet teachers have done all that because of the things you said. Now with them wanting to change the pension and how long a teacher has to work. Then that does change things and makes things like the little pay not as worth all the other stuff.

    You act like this was a new thing. This has been building for awhile. So it's not like teachers over night are just protesting without looking into it. Apparently our state government does things over night though and pass a bill that's over 209 pages without even reading it or doing any calculations on it.

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    Sorry, but I am going to upset many of my teaching friends. The pension system in Ky has never been mathematically sustainable. This system was initiated by a legislature that was financially unsophisticated (keep that term in mind, we will revisit it) and not responsible to the taxpayers in managing over the years. The gaming that has gone by both participants and legislators authorizing and than mirroring tenfold in their own programs has been abominable.

    In full disclosure, I left education and became a banker for 42 years. Now to the gaming: I don't think many know that teachers were previously able to buy up to five years of retirement credit at their last years salary (theoretically the highest) by simply paying the retirement portion of salary they and school would have paid if they worked it. I know this because I made multiple loans to teachers for this purpose so they were able to retire at 22 years with full benefits and then go back to work for state and earn a 2nd pension at the taxpayer's trouth.

    Most of the public doesn't understand the manipulation/distortion of sick days. Teachers are paid to do a job, but if they get legitimately sick they will not be penalized in the short-term and if they have the blessing of good health one year they are allowed to roll the benefit forward should a longer-term health issue develop in the future. Somehow the unsophisticated have perverted this sickness benefit to allow teachers to extend years of experience credits in the retirement system by paying nominal sums to ballon their final retirement benefits. Simply, a teacher that gets paid and works 27 years and is Blessed with no health absences gets credit for working 29 years. So, their retirement is based on highest three year's earnings and is calculated on 29 years experience (only worked 27) and at a rate based on their sole last year given credit for three times (one actually worked and the other 2 mythically worked for sick days).

    I cannot blame any retiree for taking full advantage of this convulated system. Mathematics so easily prove that you cannot have retirees drawing on the system for 30/40 years. Candidly, that is what is happening with retirees coming into the withdrawal mode at 49 and living until their 80's. Granted teachers have paid consistently; however the taxpayers have not and cannot. The full retirement contribution in a down environment is simply not sustainable and the change has to happen.

    The Ky Legislature is very vulnerable to the highly verbal/media pressures. #1). It is unconsciousable what they have done for themselves and their blatant attempts to hide it from the public. #2). Many don't have the backbones to say "enough, time to correct the error of our ways". At least previous administrations were and many more present legislators are concerned about re-election and/or higher office.

    It is hard to listen when you attempt to disrupt governance by screaming and out vocaling the process as open discussions attempt to take place. The KEA has done a tremendous disservice to the teaching profession, the professionalism of educators in general, the Ky taxpayers that are being asked to fund an unsustainable system, and the ultimate victims our educational system.

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    Teaching skills are highly transferable to other fields, particularly management positions. Setting goals, planning, scheduling, teaching, communicating, evaluating, constructive feedback, time management, motivating, holding the interest of 30 people of various attention and skill levels. The list could go on and on. One of the best high level managers I know had an early background in teaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuttlesworth View Post
    Can't stand Bevin, but let's not act like teachers have it all that bad. I mean you could literally retire at the age of 49, have a nice retirement, and still work another job/ go back into teaching somewhere else.

    Fall Break, Spring Break, Thanksgiving Break, Christmas Break, Summer Break. You can't tell me a teacher fresh out of school can't find 5 weeks to just say "Nope not dealing with school, going to do something for myself" I can only do that a few times a year. I have to work the majority of holidays. I appreciate what teachers have done for me, but not every teacher I had was a good one.

    We have to a tendency to sharpen our pitchforks nowadays before looking into anything.
    And yet the only really great financial incentive to teach is under attack. You conveniently ignore how much less teachers make than someone with comparable experience and credentials. I guess I've known 25-30 teachers on a personal out of school basis over the years; not a one retired before 55 and most were in their upper 50's or older. As for summers off, they all worked summer jobs.

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