Proposal 20 Passed

Page 32 of Originally Posted by NKYBred I think a lot of people care and that's what drives this forum! Yes, but I personally feel some people have taken this iss... 522 comments | 15914 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #466

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    I think the majority of those with cooler heads would never call the public schools pansies. Unfortunately, what happens in these instances are that the inflammatory posts are what are bandied about. It's funny how only the inciteful (not to be confused with insightful ), posts are ignored.
    I do not believe that public schools want the split but feel this is their only path. I believe they feel the privates are taking advantage of the situation and are not trying to compete fairly. I believe the publics would be all for a workable solution to the problem that would keep all together as one playoff system. I believe the publics see a system where about 260 schools have no chance to compete at any level on a year in and year out basis and feel that is a system that is not working.

    I personally don't think it is much different than the debate we see in our society over the minorities/poor that feel we have a system they cannot compete in. I would love for someone to work out/propose a solution instead of posturing and blowing hot air.

    Unfortunately, I think egos on both sides may prevent this from happening. Adults can mess things up for our kids too much.
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  2. #467

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomam
    I don't think public schools believe Privates get athletic scholarships, I think they believe that a lot of athletes get financial aid, especially athletes that have been going to public schools all their lives up until 9th grade.
    Let's be very clear. Are you claiming that students give financial aid differently based on athletic ability or where the prospective student went to school prior to the private school? I'm simple so please spell it out for me. Don't insinuate. Just give it to me in simple declarative sentences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider
    Having a kid on your sidelines for a state game is recruiting. It may or may not be against the KSHAA rules but it is recruiting. Having your student athletes email kids to get them to come play for you is recruiting. Like I asked in a previous post and got ZERO reply...Did St. X take Ed Wright to one of their academic conpetitions as well as their state title game in football? My guess is no because they didn't want him to win them a spelling bee. They wanted him to come to St. X to play QB. Plain and simple.
    I don't know who Ed Wright is, but I'll relate a personal experience. When our family was selecting a high school for our sons we went to the Trinity open house. While there we talked to a number of people about a lot of activities. The night before the placement exam we received a call from the quick recall coach and the fishing club moderator. They wanted to make sure that we knew how much we were wanted at Trinity.

  4. #469

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    I've never understood why catholic shools go after kids that have attended public schools their first 8 years. Same could be said for public schools that RECRUIT catholic school kids. My solution is that the catholic schools have a feeder system. You get those kids. The public schools keep their kids that have been going to public schools all along. Now if these kids CONTACT the schools other than those have been attending that is fine. Stop RECRUITING kids from other counties and states. I'm VERY familiar with kids from Southern Indiana that were outright recruited to attend X and Trinity. These kids had no interest of attending these schools until representatives of BOTH schools show up at their GAMES and start extolling the advantage of a catholic school education. Althought this is not illegal it is far from right. After these representatives left the games did they set up tables INSIDE the schools to RECRUIT kids that are excellent students and can't run a 4.4 forty? The same can be said for some of the kids that have been at public schools and aren't blessed with athletic talent. How much RECRUITING is done to go get some of these underpriviledged kids and give them this "FINANCIAL AID". They don't think about going to X and T because they can't afford it. Therefore, they don't seek out that option.

  5. #470

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete W
    1. I hope you agree that JCPS can't take students outside of Jefferson County, Just like shelby county cant take students from jefferson county. Then why should X or T be able to take students from where ever they want. That is not even.

    2. Look at the falcilites, public schools cant put their money into football feilds or milti million weight rooms. Why because the state and Federal Gov's mandate where and how much, not to mention the JCPS.

    3. Title IX.

    4. Number of coaches allowed to coach.

    5. Feeder System - Public youth can join any team, and eventhough the team may be named Butler or Doss does not mean they go to those schools, I know that Cathoilc grade schools dont have to go to Catholic high schools but we all know most do. You have to admit that gives them an edge. Plus I have been to catholic grade games and they will announce Coach Beaty or Coach Glaser will be visting the Booster culb or the school to talk about X or T. Coach Nichols or REdman (or any other high school coach in JCPS) cant go to one of the middle school and tell them how great Male is or How great Manual is. They cant go to the catholic schools and let the kids know about their school. Not to mention Coach Glaser Official postion at the school is Recruiting Coordinator.

    I look it like if the NCAA said U of L we are going to put you in a national playoff, but you can only get players from Kentucky and your Bordering states, and you are going to play Penn St. who can get players from the whole nation. Who would win, Penn St. 9 out of 10 times. They dont because that have different Divisions. Each has certain limits. I would love for the private schools to say OK, We will stay within Jefferson County. They can take private and public school kids, but only from one county. I would be ok with that. But they wont. WHY, is it because they would not be able to compete with the public schools? or for some other reason? Again I truly believe if the private schools just stay in Jefferson their would not be a problem, but they will not do that. But every public has to.
    Pete-thanks for the quick response. I may take some of your points out of order, but I will attempt to discuss each point.

    One of your points deals with facilities. I believe that we have established in an earlier post that your primary target is St. Xavier, because St. Xavier has won 39 state championships over the previous 10 years. From looking at your avatar, I surmise that you are a Manual fan. St. Xavier does not have a football field. For the past half-century St. Xavier has been tenants at your school, Manual, which has the largest high school football stadium in the state of Kentucky. The St. Xavier basketball gym was built in approximately 1962 and it is small. Our baseball facilities are fairly nondescript. Therefore, a fair analysis of facilities, matching Manual with St. Xavier, would result in advantage to Manual. Certainly a fair analysis of facilities matching Male with St. Xavier would result in a large advantage to Male (newer, top-flight facilities).

    I do not know that Manual is not permitted to take students from out of County. Several posters in previous posts have cited specific examples of Manual accepting students from out of county. I had understood that public schools could take students from out of county but that any student coming in from out of county had to pay a small tuition. If that is true, then a student coming to St. Xavier from out of county has to pay a large tuition. Therefore, the advantage would again go to Manual. On the other hand, if Manual truly is not permitted to accept out of county students the advantage would have to be to St. Xavier, although we established in a previous post that this has been virtually no advantage to St. Xavier but may have been an advantage to Trinity. By the way, Manual is quite selective with its students, requiring them to test into the school. This, of course, results on the average in a superior student. Are your football players held to the same requirements? Or, are standards lowered?

    Feeder System-when we talk about "level playing field" I assume we are talking about some inherent imbalance, not something each side would be able to accomplish with hard work. Yes, there is a Catholic grade school football league. There is no prohibition whatsoever to nonprivate schools volunteering, working hard, and establishing powerful grade school football leagues. I have known a number of young players in Catholic grade school football leagues and I have known their parents. These people are very dedicated and work very hard. There is no inherent reason that nonprivate schools could not achieve the same results. Also, Coach Glaser has not always been the recruiting coordinator at St. Xavier and certainly Manual could place their coach and a similar position if they so wished.And, there is an upcoming countywide high school night where eighth-graders can come in and meet with and talk to and examine aspects of public high schools. This is held for public schools at a public location paid for by taxpayers money. No such an analogous form exists for Catholic schools. This is an inherent advantage that public schools have over their Catholic counterparts.

    Number of coaches permitted to coach-It is my understanding that schools in Jefferson County are restricted to payment of a certain amount to their coaching staff in football. If I am right than we are on a perfectly level playing field except, again, Catholics may have more volunteers. This is not a built-in advantage and the publics are more than welcome to volunteer at their schools. I would note, parenthetically, that coaches are teachers and public school teachers are paid more in salary and their Catholic school counterparts. Therefore, the advantage in this instance is to Manual.

    Title IX-This is diversity, and we are always told that diversity is advantage. I believe that Doctor Keepers, your principal, would argue that diversity is an advantage. You have both genders and St. Xavier has only one. Political correctness aside, no girls play on the Manual boys teams. I see no advantage for either school here.

    Would you agree that if the private schools refuse to take any students from out of Jefferson County that the public schools should have to abide by the same regulations? And if all schools did so, would you agree that the public schools would then have the playing field tilted toward them since Catholics have to pay between $5,000 and $8,000 in tuition each year, may not have their own football stadiums (St. Xavier and Desales), have teachers/coaches who are paid less than their public school counterparts, and often have older or nonexistent athletic facilities (with the exception of Trinity's football field built with private contributions).

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I don't know who Ed Wright is, but I'll relate a personal experience. When our family was selecting a high school for our sons we went to the Trinity open house. While there we talked to a number of people about a lot of activities. The night before the placement exam we received a call from the quick recall coach and the fishing club moderator. They wanted to make sure that we knew how much we were wanted at Trinity.
    Ed Wright was one of the "Recruited" kids mentioned in the email from the AD of Jeffersonville H.S. to JCPS Athletic Directors.

  7. #472

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    Listen if they do that, they are cutting of their noses to spite their faces.

    There will still be championship games to be played and people from those schools will still support them. Kids will still have the fun playing in a cahmpionship game.

    I assume that most of the people posting here are adults. Lets remember that sports whether it is football or volleyball is for the kids, it is there to enrich the high school experience. It is only when adults get involved that there is touble.

    I asked several of the kids that play football at my school and they had no idea what it was. When it was explained they all seemed to say they thought it was fine with them if the privates left.
    Well of course when you ask them that way they probably don't care one way or another. Now turn around and ask them how they would feel if they knew the privates were being kicked out by the powers of th ALMIGHTY KHSAA and see what they say.

  8. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalen5
    I've never understood why catholic shools go after kids that have attended public schools their first 8 years. Same could be said for public schools that RECRUIT catholic school kids. My solution is that the catholic schools have a feeder system. You get those kids. The public schools keep their kids that have been going to public schools all along. Now if these kids CONTACT the schools other than those have been attending that is fine. Stop RECRUITING kids from other counties and states. I'm VERY familiar with kids from Southern Indiana that were outright recruited to attend X and Trinity. These kids had no interest of attending these schools until representatives of BOTH schools show up at their GAMES and start extolling the advantage of a catholic school education. Althought this is not illegal it is far from right. After these representatives left the games did they set up tables INSIDE the schools to RECRUIT kids that are excellent students and can't run a 4.4 forty? The same can be said for some of the kids that have been at public schools and aren't blessed with athletic talent. How much RECRUITING is done to go get some of these underpriviledged kids and give them this "FINANCIAL AID". They don't think about going to X and T because they can't afford it. Therefore, they don't seek out that option.
    I don't disagree with much of what you say. I don't want any school, including mine, recruiting kids because they are athletes. I think there is much that can and should be done to tighten the rules regarding contact between coaches and prospective students. In the CJ this week, Jim Sexton, the principal of Eastern High School and a member of the Board of Control stated that if a coach isn't out finding out about great athletes he doesn't want them for a coach. That attitude needs to change for ALL schools. Bob Redman at Male is very up front about his own recruiting. I think that families that don't think they can afford a private school are encouraged to look into it by all of the public school talk about athletic scholarships. Once they look into it they start trying to figure out a way to pay for it.

  9. #474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I don't disagree with much of what you say. I don't want any school, including mine, recruiting kids because they are athletes. I think there is much that can and should be done to tighten the rules regarding contact between coaches and prospective students. In the CJ this week, Jim Sexton, the principal of Eastern High School and a member of the Board of Control stated that if a coach isn't out finding out about great athletes he doesn't want them for a coach. That attitude needs to change for ALL schools. Bob Redman at Male is very up front about his own recruiting. I think that families that don't think they can afford a private school are encouraged to look into it by all of the public school talk about athletic scholarships. Once they look into it they start trying to figure out a way to pay for it.
    I agree. This is a system that is not working on a couple of fronts. The prop 20 issue is just one front. Open enrollment being done differently in parts of the state is an issue that creates the same situation that is being argued with privates. The thought of recruiting to a HS a student because they are an athlete SORELY misses the point of it being a HS.

  10. #475

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    Here's something interesting about Tony Branch, the AD @ Jeff High:


    Two Branch teenagers, Tonya and Tony, are at Male High School
    Article in the C-J, dated June 23

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    Here's something interesting about Tony Branch, the AD @ Jeff High:




    Article in the C-J, dated June 23
    It sounds like to me that he lives in Louisville and just works for the Jeffersonville H.S.

  12. #477

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider
    It sounds like to me that he lives in Louisville and just works for the Jeffersonville H.S.

    I didn't say anything except that I found it interesting.

  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    I didn't say anything except that I found it interesting.
    Your, right. It is interesting. Please don't think I was trying to imply you said anything.

  14. #479

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I don't disagree with much of what you say. I don't want any school, including mine, recruiting kids because they are athletes. I think there is much that can and should be done to tighten the rules regarding contact between coaches and prospective students. In the CJ this week, Jim Sexton, the principal of Eastern High School and a member of the Board of Control stated that if a coach isn't out finding out about great athletes he doesn't want them for a coach. That attitude needs to change for ALL schools. Bob Redman at Male is very up front about his own recruiting. I think that families that don't think they can afford a private school are encouraged to look into it by all of the public school talk about athletic scholarships. Once they look into it they start trying to figure out a way to pay for it.
    Public schools have to recruit in order to compete with T and X and even with the recruiting going on there is still a battle to compete. Male, Manual(only recently), Ballard (occasionally) are the only ones that CAN do it. I don't think there is a difference in coaching and working hard. The public school coaches work as hard, study as much film, stay away from home as long. It is a numbers game. At the catholic school there are more numbers to practice against. You can have your first offensive group going against a defensive scout team that is just as good as the team you will be playing and vice versa for the defense. At the public schools most of the true atheletes play both ways. The practice is split so both sides of the ball get work. The scout teams they go against are not as good because the numbers aren't as great and the talent they go against is not as good. I've heard of stories that catholic school coaches will recruit kids to their schools just to keep them from going to a public school where they could be utilized to better compete with them. That certainly can't be fair to the kid.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalen5
    I've never understood why catholic shools go after kids that have attended public schools their first 8 years. Same could be said for public schools that RECRUIT catholic school kids. My solution is that the catholic schools have a feeder system. You get those kids. The public schools keep their kids that have been going to public schools all along. Now if these kids CONTACT the schools other than those have been attending that is fine. Stop RECRUITING kids from other counties and states. I'm VERY familiar with kids from Southern Indiana that were outright recruited to attend X and Trinity. These kids had no interest of attending these schools until representatives of BOTH schools show up at their GAMES and start extolling the advantage of a catholic school education. Althought this is not illegal it is far from right. After these representatives left the games did they set up tables INSIDE the schools to RECRUIT kids that are excellent students and can't run a 4.4 forty? The same can be said for some of the kids that have been at public schools and aren't blessed with athletic talent. How much RECRUITING is done to go get some of these underpriviledged kids and give them this "FINANCIAL AID". They don't think about going to X and T because they can't afford it. Therefore, they don't seek out that option.
    Perhaps than the proposal needs to be to keep high school coaches away from middle school games. Once a kid actual attends their high school they have plenty of time to mold them into the type of players they need.

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