Proposal 20 Passed

Page 25 of Originally Posted by NKYBred I think a lot of people care and that's what drives this forum! Yes, but I personally feel some people have taken this iss... 522 comments | 15922 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStud
    ?????????????????????????? No you just proved my point that quality public programs are able to beat private schools. Maybe instead of bickering public school mimick public school programs who win.
    And as been stated many times before, Boyle County is the only non-public, non-independent rural county in the state that has shown the ability to do that. So using your mindset one of 2 things must be occurring. Either about 220 out of 240 school systems in the state are doing it wrong or the playing field is unlevel.

    Somewhere I heard that Lex Cath had athletes from 10 or 12 different counties. EVERY single athlete in my HS is from our little county of about 13,000. That is not a level playing field. As Beechwood has a very small student body of males to pull from for their football team in comparison of St. X and the huge number they have to pull from, LC has a huge advantage over other schools.
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  2. #362

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    This is the exact arrogance that public schools are fed up with. Private schools feeling they are EVERYTHING to the KHSAA and HS athletics. Without the privates, the publics are nothing. It has been an attitude that the publics FEEL they are receiving consistently from the private schools. Whether it is true or not or whether the privates believe they are doing it or not, that is what the publics are getting from the privates. That the privates are 'better', not necessarily on the field, but 'better' in life and class.
    Based on yesterday's vote it is the publics that have the feeling that the privates are better. So much better in fact that the publics can never catch up.

  3. #363
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    So this isn't final yet? It still has to be passed by the Education & State Legislature? I don't have time to read all the posts, so I apologize, but there's still hope that it won't pass? If it does, when will it start? High school sports in Kentucky will be ruined if it does.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by gametime
    What is attendence like at the Tennessee Public School Finals???
    First of all TN does not have all private schools separated. They have two classes of private schools. The first is the ones that give athletic scholarships and the second is the ones that don't. Private schools that do not give athletic scholarships can compete in all sports with the public schools. In fact, in TN if a student receives any financial aid, he or she cannot compete in athletics.

    When I lived in TN, the private school championships were a joke. There are just a handful of teams. There was only three rounds for the football playoffs. A casual fan in TN would normally not attend the private school championships, but would attend the public school championships.

    The odd thing, is that in TN the debate is raging about private schools because of their dominance of the small school divisions. And here in KY it is because of the large private schools.

  5. #365
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    X, Trinity and Lex Cath will survive without the KHSAA and it's crap divisions. I feel bad for the small school like Holy Cross and Desales.

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    And as been stated many times before, Boyle County is the only non-public, non-independent rural county in the state that has shown the ability to do that. So using your mindset one of 2 things must be occurring. Either about 220 out of 240 school systems in the state are doing it wrong or the playing field is unlevel.

    Somewhere I heard that Lex Cath had athletes from 10 or 12 different counties. EVERY single athlete in my HS is from our little county of about 13,000. That is not a level playing field. As Beechwood has a very small student body of males to pull from for their football team in comparison of St. X and the huge number they have to pull from, LC has a huge advantage over other schools.
    EVERY single athlete in your high school is from your little county of 13,000 because that is the way it was chosen by those in charge to be set up.

    Beechwood and Highlands are public independent school districts chose not to do it that way and not limit themselves to one county. So you are correct the playing field is not level and it will never be level until you hold championships for schools with all students from one county of 13,000 or less.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    I'm not going to direct this reply to any one individual poster, but I'm going to try and ramble my way through why I and my son and daughter are so upset by this.

    I'll begin with, it's not about the sports, it's about principles.

    The Private schools have worked extremely hard, dedicated a lot of time, money, effort, and sweat into building their schools into some of the best in the state; not just athletically, academically and spiritually as well. We've invested more than just the tangibles into our schools. We're tied to them emotionally, and we begin dreaming of the day our kids will attend in the future. I feel this is an applicable statement to the majority of Private School parents and Alumni. The proof is in the number of Alumni that return to teach, coach, fundraise, attend events, and donate to fundraising campaigns.

    The fact that we've abided by the rules, as set forth by the KHSAA, and continued to become successful, and that the Public schools have decided that we must be "cheating" just sticks in our craws! The mere realization that at any time the Public schools don't like the success that we've achieved are able to change the rules is absolutely galling! The fact that there are channels and avenues that should be utilized if any misconduct is suspected, and that the public schools are unwilling to report or utilize the channels in case of such illegal activities, but would rather not utilize the existing system, instead choosing to just eliminate the private schools is completely reprehensible to me!

    Public schools have nothing to lose from these proposals. In fact, if they don't like the circumstances a few years down the road, they'll take more action to "even the playing field", and so on and so on, and so on. This is permanant for the Private schools, though. I really doubt the public schools will vote for the Private schools' return if things don't work out they way they envision.

    We're so emotionally tied to our schools that it's possible that some public/private split proponents may not be able to understand. We realize this affects not just our children, but our grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and so on and so on.

    So, let's go back to the "leveling the playing field" comments. As I said in another thread, it seems that the Public schools feel that it's fair for them to have a level playing field, but that the Private schools are somehow not due the same consideration. So, now you've put the smaller privates in a terrible predicament, athletically....most obviously in football. I feel that it's possible that with the exception of football, we may all be able to somewhat be competitive in basketball and a few other sports. I don't dispute that. But, I didn't see anyone clammoring from the Public schools that the playing field wasn't level in baseball, for instance. But there are still some schools that will lose some sports.

    One other thing....My blood boils whenever I hear that the public schools will "allow" us to play them in the regular season! For the love of God, WHY?! If you can't be competitive with us in the post-season, why, OH WHY do you want to play us in the regular season? Is it the gate receipts when events are hosted at your school? Is it so that if you do beat us, you still have that "glory", without sacrificing your precious post-season? The fact that the word "allow" is used is infuriating!

    I can understand, and will support the private schools, if we wind up having to accept this, and play these games this way. But, I will absolutely be hoping that the private schools find another way, that they organize statewide as St.ThomasMore has suggested, and find an alternative to playing public schools that will work for even the smallest of the private schools.

    Again, it's not specifically an athletic issue with us. It's the principle. We feel we've been unfairly targeted, when there are far more issues involved with the state of athletics in public schools....participation percentages, per student population, the lack of organized athletics in the grade school/middle school years, the lack of committment on the part of those that could either financially or with their time, help their school's programs. Those issues will not be resolved by this split. They may actually become more glaringly obvious, as the focus on the private schools will not be able to be used as an excuse. But the real question is, what will be blamed at that point? It will be interesting to see whether the issues will be addressed, or if more competition will be eliminated.
    Awesome post! As usual, you've been able to accurately convey the feelings and frustrations many of us have been going through and did in a clasy manner.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockPride
    at least we all know that gametime is adamently against euch an enigma..
    Personally I'm ashamed that my alma matter and the school my kids attend had anything to do with it. :argue: This effects Lloyd very little. All this does is water down the championship. I feel sorry for the first state champion that earns the asterisk next to their name.

  9. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tough as Nails
    First of all TN does not have all private schools separated. They have two classes of private schools. The first is the ones that give athletic scholarships and the second is the ones that don't. Private schools that do not give athletic scholarships can compete in all sports with the public schools. In fact, in TN if a student receives any financial aid, he or she cannot compete in athletics.
    Since there are NO schools in Kentucky that offer athletic scholarships, there is no need for the split

  10. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Play No Work
    EVERY single athlete in your high school is from your little county of 13,000 because that is the way it was chosen by those in charge to be set up.

    Beechwood and Highlands are public independent school districts chose not to do it that way and not limit themselves to one county. So you are correct the playing field is not level and it will never be level until you hold championships for schools with all students from one county of 13,000 or less.
    I agree with your post except your last statement. And the public school system SHOULD be set up to serve a community, not a several county area. The public school system is designed as it should be and the private schools are designed the way they should be. That makes them different gives each advantages in different ways. Athletically, the advantage goes to the private schools, shown by some private schools having athletes from multiple counties.

    I do think it should not be allowed for a public school to draw from outside of their designated area. As a boundary was trying to be determined for private schools, it should be the same for public schools. If you want your child to attend a certain school, move into that district.

    I do not think that a student living in another state or school district should be attending school in another district UNLESS there is a true educational reason for it. And there are incidents of true educational reasons.

  11. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90Rock
    Awesome post! As usual, you've been able to accurately convey the feelings and frustrations many of us have been going through and did in a clasy manner.

    Thanks, 90. It took me a while to calm down enough to organize my thoughts into some semblance of a coherent post.

  12. #372
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    Again Why Dont All The T and Privite supporters address post 275 in this thread. I am waiting. But you cant say eanything but Cheapen this and that, Teach kids this and that. At least we teach Kentucky kids.
    I here all the crying about "if you split it will cheapen the title game" But it has already been cheapen by x and T beacause they have kids who dont live in the borders of the state of Kentucky, but yet get to be the state of Kentucky high school champions. That is like saying miss Kentucky won the Miss America, but she came from Canada. Why, Because she was the prettier then any girl in Kentucky. OH yea Prop 3 passed to, which doesnt allow kids out side of Kentucky to play sports. I guess T and X would not have won all those KENTUCKY CHAMPIONSHIPs without the help of some real pretty Hoosiers. Heck I know of two running backs on both there rosters that are from the state north of the border.
    Again look at post 275 and This . Waiting

  13. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete W
    Again Why Dont All The T and Privite supporters address post 275 in this thread. I am waiting. But you cant say eanything but Cheapen this and that, Teach kids this and that. At least we teach Kentucky kids.
    I here all the crying about "if you split it will cheapen the title game" But it has already been cheapen by x and T beacause they have kids who dont live in the borders of the state of Kentucky, but yet get to be the state of Kentucky high school champions. That is like saying miss Kentucky won the Miss America, but she came from Canada. Why, Because she was the prettier then any girl in Kentucky. OH yea Prop 3 passed to, which doesnt allow kids out side of Kentucky to play sports. I guess T and X would not have won all those KENTUCKY CHAMPIONSHIPs without the help of some real pretty Hoosiers. Heck I know of two running backs on both there rosters that are from the state north of the border.
    Again look at post 275 and This . Waiting

    Pete...what do you want us to say? If anything illegal has transpired, why was not action taken? Why weren't the existing channels utilized? At the time the boys you mention were choosing their schools, there was no issue with out-of-state students attending Trinity, X or any other private school, nor with playing on the teams those schools.

    For the record, I thought Brian Brohm was the reason we won those championships! Now it was Cruz May?! Cruz was an OUTSTANDING player, but funny no one credited him with our success when he was playing in the Brohm era!

    I'll say this...the thing I left out of my post above, NO one OWNS my kids, except me! I will NEVER support the idea that kids that live in a certain area "belong" to a certain school. NEVER.

  14. #374

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    I agree with your post except your last statement. And the public school system SHOULD be set up to serve a community, not a several county area. The public school system is designed as it should be and the private schools are designed the way they should be. That makes them different gives each advantages in different ways. Athletically, the advantage goes to the private schools, shown by some private schools having athletes from multiple counties.

    I do think it should not be allowed for a public school to draw from outside of their designated area. As a boundary was trying to be determined for private schools, it should be the same for public schools. If you want your child to attend a certain school, move into that district.

    I do not think that a student living in another state or school district should be attending school in another district UNLESS there is a true educational reason for it. And there are incidents of true educational reasons.
    How can you NOT agree with my last statement given....

    You say public schools should not be allowed to draw from outside a designated area. (Independents do)
    You say a boundary should be determined. (Independents do not have boundries)
    You say move if you want to attend a certain school. (Independent school families do not have to move)
    You say there has to be a true educational reason to attend another district. (Independents schools do not care why you want to attend).

    You haven't level the playing field by getting rid of the private schools. If anything by passing Prop 20 and not passing Prop 1 the independent schools will be that much stronger and your typical small county school will not stand a chance.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90Rock
    Awesome post! As usual, you've been able to accurately convey the feelings and frustrations many of us have been going through and did in a clasy manner.

    Answer this, I guess you think this stuff is fair and just X and T have better coaching and work harder then any other public school. Look like they have been working hard in Indiana also.



    FROM: Tony Branch, Athletic Director, Jeffersonville H.S.; IN____________



    TO: JCPS Athletic Directors; Please share with your principals ___________________



    RE: Proposal One – Keep rule that 20 mile radius cannot cross state lines.





    Please consider keeping the original Proposal One plan that the 20 mile radius WILL NOT extend into another state. The proponents of separation stated in an Oct. 14th Courier Journal article that the lack of boundaries for private schools is one of their main concerns. If the public schools allow the athletic boundary of the Jefferson County private schools to cross state lines into the state of Indiana; geography will provide the private schools with 50% more boundary than the public schools since the Ohio River separates Jefferson County and Indiana. You would defeat your purpose of establishing fair boundaries for all schools in the KHSAA.

    Jeffersonville High School is located in the state of Indiana. It is across the Ohio River and one mile north of Louisville, KY. In approximately the past six years, Jeffersonville has lost several outstanding football athletes to Louisville private schools:

    Donald Barnett – Current running back at Trinity H.S. He is one of the top football players in the state of KY. His

    current residence is in Jeffersonville.

    Trea Burgess – Attended Trinity H.S. as a freshman & soph. Then transferred back to Jeffersonville H.S. in 2004

    school year as a junior. He is Jeffersonville’s most outstanding football player & one of the top

    football players in Southern Indiana. Burgess has rushed for over 1,000 yards this season.

    Ken Fuller – Attended Trinity as a freshman & Soph. then returned to Jeffersonville H.S.

    Willie Williams – Graduated in 2004. Outstanding quarterback. Attended a Louisville private school for two years

    then transferred back to Jeffersonville H.S.

    Cruz May – Left for private Louisville school & played four years there.

    Chase Bean – Attended Trinity H.S. as a freshman. Stayed there for one & one-half years then transferred back to

    Jeffersonville H.S. this current school year.



    Ed Wright – Current freshman at Jeffersonville H.S. He is our most outstanding freshman football player. He

    Quarterbacks the JV and plays varsity as a freshman. He was courted in middle school by St. X.

    They had him on the sideline of their state championship game in 2004.

    Antonio Veals – A great football player and athlete. He played football for four years at Trinity and had an

    Outstanding football career at Western Kentucky University. He has finished his athletic eligibility at Western Kentucky Univ. and has just been hired by the Jeffersonville Fire Dept.

    Donovan Sims – One of our two most talented sophomore players this current year. He transferred back to

    Jeffersonville after spending one year at Trinity H.S.



    If Trea Burgess (2nd player listed) did not transfer back to Jeffersonville, Trinity would currently have our top two football players this season.

    It is obvious to me that the Louisville private schools identify our best athletes in middle school as early as the 6th and 7th grades and then implement an organized recruitment process to persuade these selected athletes to attend their schools. This recruitment consists of handing out business cards, having current private school student-athletes e-mail them, invites to open house and shadowing, phone calls, and offers of financial aid. It is alarming to me and damaging to our athletic programs

    that Kentucky private schools can come into our state and recruit our best athletes to play in Kentucky High School athletics.



    Please be firm on your proposal one that where athletic eligibility is concerned, KHSAA member schools boundary cannot extend across state lines into another state. In other words, no out of state resident may participate in KHSAA athletics.




    Consider that both Trinity and St. Xavier already have 1,500 to 1,600 boys. The Louisville public schools have approximately 1,400 to 1,800 students (girls & boys). Only half (700 to 900) of those students in public schools are boys. Trinity & St.X out number the public schools by 700 to 900 male athletes. If you also allow private schools to bring in top athletes from Indiana or out of state, you will make it very difficult for the public schools to establish an equitable balance of athletic talent with private schools. The original Proposal One would be effective because it would mandate the same eligibility requirements for both public and private schools.



    To be effective, proposal one would require the legal guardian of student-athlete in question to provide proof of consistent residency in the state of Kentucky in order for the student to gain athletic eligibility. Students whose legal guardians are not residents of the state of Kentucky should not be given athletic eligibility in the KHSAA.



    The Archdiocese’s proposal would not allow students outside a 20 mile radius of their school to play varsity sports during their first year at the private school. This is not a concession. Most freshmen are not ready to compete on the varsity level. Therefore the private schools may still recruit outstanding athletes from outside their radius and across state lines to be in their freshman and junior varsity feeder programs. These athletes residing in Indiana & from outside the 20 mile radius would be allowed to compete all four years as is now the case. Nothing would have changed from the current system.

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