Majority of Americans Identify as "Pro-Choice" Instead of "Pro-Life"

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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    Your question is kind of the answer. Well, the part you leave out is the answer, whether you left it out intentionally or unintentionally. How many days does the male carry the fetus? How many of the males have to put their job on hold for months while they carry the fetus and give birth? How many of the males have to face health problems and health risks? How many males have been forced, or coerced, to carry a fetus in their body and give birth to it?
    With the exception of the very few who are raped. i'd say the choice was made when BOTH parties decided to do the dirty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    It solves the question "does a woman have a right to make her own choices about her own body." To tell a woman who was raped and impregnated that she should carry to term because an abortion doesn't "solve anything" deprives her of her autonomy, the ability to make such a choice for herself. To decide for herself whether it solves anything.

    It also, once again, forces your religion views on her. Without religion, this is really a non-issue by and large. We have opposition to the day after pill. Science has fetal development mapped out pretty well. There is no rational opposition to a day after pill, absent some religious belief about a soul at the time of conception. Ironically, science would lend itself to some pretty strong arguments against abortion in the latter stages, but pro-lifers don't generally seem to like to make such not-so-fine distinctions. Three cells can make a "baby", a raped woman is a "mom", the rapist is a "dad" (all of these examples are in this thread). oh, and "abortion" is "murder."
    No it doesn't. Not every decision morally is a religious one, regardless how jaded your view might be.

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    My mother had an early-term abortion. Pre Roe-v-Wade. She is what most here would call a "very religious person".

    I have a hard time considering her a murderer, or deserving of prison or death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcpapa View Post
    My mother had an early-term abortion. Pre Roe-v-Wade. She is what most here would call a "very religious person".

    I have a hard time considering her a murderer, or deserving of prison or death.
    See, there's the rub for me. If it's illegal, what will be the penalty?Don't get me wrong, I'm against it and wish it was illegal, yet I don't know what I'd be in favor of with regard to the penalty.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by spindoc View Post
    No it doesn't. Not every decision morally is a religious one, regardless how jaded your view might be.
    The opposition to abortion is this county has a religious component, an over-riding component actually. The evangelical christians drive this issue. Not the moderates, or the liberals, or the fiscal conservatives. To claim otherwise is silly, every reader on this forum knows it to be the case. Not every person against abortion is an evangelical christian, but that does not negate the fact that it is the evangelical christians that drive this issue.

    Take the example I gave, the morning-after pill. For about five days after fertalization, there is simply a few cells called a blastocyst. They travel to the uterus and embed in the wall and begin to form the embryo. That's right, there isn't even an embryo yet. But there is still widespread opposition to the morning-after pill. Now why is that? Exactly what is the moral opposition to this other than religion.

    Or take a step back further. Catholics oppose masturbation. Thou shall not spill the seed. Is there a moral opposition to masturbation that is not religious based?

    I will stand by my statement that without religion, abortion would be a non-issue, by and large.

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    The correlation between religion, political party and views on abortion. circa 2006.
    Religion, Politics Inform Americans' Views on Abortion

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    The opposition to abortion is this county has a religious component, an over-riding component actually. The evangelical christians drive this issue. Not the moderates, or the liberals, or the fiscal conservatives. To claim otherwise is silly, every reader on this forum knows it to be the case. Not every person against abortion is an evangelical christian, but that does not negate the fact that it is the evangelical christians that drive this issue.

    Take the example I gave, the morning-after pill. For about five days after fertalization, there is simply a few cells called a blastocyst. They travel to the uterus and embed in the wall and begin to form the embryo. That's right, there isn't even an embryo yet. But there is still widespread opposition to the morning-after pill. Now why is that? Exactly what is the moral opposition to this other than religion.

    Or take a step back further. Catholics oppose masturbation. Thou shall not spill the seed. Is there a moral opposition to masturbation that is not religious based?

    I will stand by my statement that without religion, abortion would be a non-issue, by and large.
    I think that ship has sailed if any of these numbers are correct in the little poll this thread was started from. Sure, there are still religious overtones, but decisions about abortion's legality is no longer confined to the blue haired bun ladies in the first two pews of the church. There are many more morally opposed (and pro) folks out there that make that decision without the bible as their compass. Decisions like these (abortion and death penalty) don't necessarily have to be rooted in one's membership or lack thereof on Sunday.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    The correlation between religion, political party and views on abortion. circa 2006.
    Religion, Politics Inform Americans' Views on Abortion
    Lord knows (thought that would be a good intro) that this poll and the ones that SF has stuck on here at every opportunity have shown that there are more and more folks are making that decision not based on their religion. This generation doesn't affiliate with "church" or organized religion like the generation before them. So, if I'm even remotely correct, when will it become a moral decision that stands alone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spindoc View Post
    Lord knows (thought that would be a good intro) that this poll and the ones that SF has stuck on here at every opportunity have shown that there are more and more folks are making that decision not based on their religion. This generation doesn't affiliate with "church" or organized religion like the generation before them. So, if I'm even remotely correct, when will it become a moral decision that stands alone?
    When we give up the ghost lol. I am praying for the day I don't think any moral decision has to be made with reference to religion, particularly since I believe we simply make up our decisions as we go anyway. Some of those verses get us headed in the wrong way and it takes a while to recover. e.g. slavery, homosexuality, etc.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    When we give up the ghost lol. I am praying for the day I don't think any moral decision has to be made with reference to religion, particularly since I believe we simply make up our decisions as we go anyway. Some of those verses get us headed in the wrong way and it takes a while to recover. e.g. slavery, homosexuality, etc.
    Good luck with that.

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    No one ever asked me. I don't put a lot of stock in these types of surveys. I have never been asked to be a part of one and I have never met anyone that has been asked to be a part of one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Who said it solved anything?

    But as a guy, who will never understand what a woman in that situation goes through, if it brings them some sort of closure or allows them to start the healing process, it's not my place to stand in their way. Think about this....a man forced himself on the woman, and now you're advocating forcing that woman to give birth to the rapist's child.

    It's not an easy situation by any stretch, but I just can't support forcing that decision on them.
    The alternative would be FORCING death upon a child who has no say in the matter.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PP1 View Post
    No one ever asked me. I don't put a lot of stock in these types of surveys. I have never been asked to be a part of one and I have never met anyone that has been asked to be a part of one.
    You don't put stock in these polls? Reasonable enough, they are often wrong and/or flawed. It's the reasoning behind it that interests me, that you have never been part of one or met anyone who was part of one. Saaayyyyyyyy, aren't you a preacher? I have a few questions about angels lol. j/k. Off to make dinner before the UK game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcpapa View Post
    Correct.
    So the only reason you are against murder is religion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    You cannot say you are against abortion and then add "except for rape, ....." if your argument is "it's ending an innocent life."

    It's 100% inconsistent.
    I would argue if you are against murder but for abortion you are 100% inconsistent.

    The only difference is one form of murder has become socially acceptable for some.

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