Louisville Man Accused of Shooting at Police Appears in Court

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Who Is Damon Allen? Suspect Dabrett Black Arrested After Deadly Police Shooting In Texas

    Ky. cop killed by suspect pretending to be police officer - NY Daily News


    Here are two more examples. In one case, a black male murdered a police officer and was later arrested after an hours long man hunt.

    In the other case, a white male murdered a police officer and was killed by police after hours of hunting.

    It doesn't make sense to compare these two cases. There are/could be many reasons why one lived and one didnt.
    Okay, we don’t have to compare the cases.

    Can you at least understand why me, PP, and other minorities will believe this man lived because he was white?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    Okay, we don’t have to compare the cases.

    Can you at least understand why me, PP, and other minorities will believe this man lived because he was white?
    I understand that I don't know you or your experiences, just like you don't know me or mine.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    I understand that I don't know you or your experiences, just like you don't know me or mine.
    That’s not what I asked. But okay.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    My issue is painting every situation with a broad brush. It's absolutely possible the office that shot Tamir Rice was the worlds biggest racist. It's also possible he was inept and had no business being a cop. It's also possible he knew the kid had a gun and reacted when he made a move to draw it. The gun was not a water gun but an air soft that looks exactly like a real gun. If that was what happened how were the officers suppose to know if it was real or not? Should they wait until shots are actually fired?Regarding the story in the OP, maybe the cops knew the guy. Maybe they could tell the run wasn't real. Maybe they just assume any white guys with guns are not a treat because their white. Maybe whoever called told the cops he had a pellet gun and not a real gun. Again, who knows because the article no information.
    One other possibility is that police officers don't mind being shot and killed by white suspects.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    Yes, and the questions blacks all across the nation are asking right now is how is Oscar Walters still alive because the perception all across the nation by black people is that if he was black he’d be dead. That perception isn’t going away in our lifetimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    Okay, we don’t have to compare the cases.

    Can you at least understand why me, PP, and other minorities will believe this man lived because he was white?
    I do understand that you and most African-Americans believe this. I just don't know if this perception is based on facts. If your perception of reality doesn't match the facts, then your perception is a false assumption, one that has been reinforced through the narrative being woven by the media in recent times.

    There are several studies done recently (4 in 2016) that show that white suspects are more likely to be shot by police than black suspects. And the decision to shoot is reached much more quickly when the suspect is white than when he is black. This does not fit the common narrative.

    On your side, those studies also showed that when an arrest is occurring the amount of physical force escalates more quickly when the suspect is African-American. In other words, the police will use more physical force more quickly with a minority suspect than with a Caucasian. Black suspects are more likely to be "jostled" than a white person. So I can understand the suspicion African-Americans have regarding this topic.

    But when it comes to being shot by the police, a white suspect is at greater risk than an African-American. This doesn't match the narrative of the media. They don't run stories about unarmed white suspects getting shot though it happens.

    Here's a quote from an article on this subject:

    Among the nearly 500 white victims of fatal police shootings last year was a 50-year-old suspect in a domestic assault call in Tuscaloosa, Ala., who ran at the shooting officer with a spoon; a 28-year-old driver in Des Moines, Iowa, who led police on a chase, then got out of his car and walked quickly toward the shooting officer; and a 21-year-old suspect in a grocery store robbery in Akron, Ohio, who had escaped on a bike and did not remove his hand from his waistband when ordered to do so. from "The Washington Examiner"

    Sounds like similar incidents involving African-American suspects.

    I understand you have these perceptions. It may be because you see African-Americans treated with more suspicion by police than white people, or you have experienced this yourself, or you know that the police are more likely to use an escalated form of physical force when apprehending an African-American. But it isn't true that African-Americans are more likely to be shot by police than whites are. The facts just don't bear this out.

    But many people accept this perception as being true. In the case of Michael Brown in Ferguson that touched off the Black Lives Matter protests, it was assumed Michael Brown was shot unjustly because he was African-American. Many people believe he had his hands up and said don't shoot. This became the rallying cry for BLM. The truth is different. The Eric Holder/ President Obama Justice Department found that eye witness testimony of African-Americans matched the forensic evidence gathered at the scene... Michael Brown reached through the police vehicle driver's side window and grabbed the officer's gun. A struggle for the firearm ensued in which the first gun shot was fired inside the vehicle going through Michael Brown's hand. The DNA evidence inside the vehicle confirmed this, as well as African-American witnesses on the scene. The fatal shots were fired as Michael Brown moved aggressively toward the officer. There were no entry wounds in Brown's back. Eric Holder's investigation exonerated the police officer.

    But that is not the perception. The perception is that Michael Brown was trying to surrender. He wasn't. But this misconception launched the BLM movement.

    This is why there is such a wide gap that exists between what many African-Americans believe about police bias and what many conservatives believe. While I don't have a first-hand knowledge of these things, I am willing to listen to facts and adjust my perceptions based on truth. I cannot say that if I was African-American and grew up in a predominantly African-American neighborhood that I would have the same view I hold now. I probably would be just as certain of police bias as has been expressed by African-Americans on BGP.

    However, there is evidence that can be studied. Every person shot by a police officer is known by name. There is a report on file. All of these incidents can be studied. Patterns can be shown. And the times when there is a bad police shoot, those officers should be held accountable. But if there is no identifiable bias against African-Americans and no higher incidence of police shooting of African-Americans, this should be acknowledged and an effort made to dispel the misconception and misinformation.

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    whas11.com | Man arrested after assaulting wife, shooting at police with air rifle

    Fwiw, this article makes it seem like he shot through the front door, I'm assuming before they ever saw him.

    I'm guessing he then came out with out the gun, and was arrested after a struggle.

    Either way, sounds like a real idiot. Hopefully he serves some significant time, not only for his interactions with police, but for beating his wife with a flashlight.

  6. #51
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    218 police shootings database - Washington Post

    Here is an interesting site on the subject. You can toggle the last three years, race, gender, weapon, and probably most concerning many of these cases still don’t have body cam footage.

  7. #52
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    @Hellcats, Did you cull through the data and draw any conclusions?

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    Maybe they could tell it was CO2 operated?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgrappler View Post
    One other possibility is that police officers don't mind being shot and killed by white suspects.





    I do understand that you and most African-Americans believe this. I just don't know if this perception is based on facts. If your perception of reality doesn't match the facts, then your perception is a false assumption, one that has been reinforced through the narrative being woven by the media in recent times.

    There are several studies done recently (4 in 2016) that show that white suspects are more likely to be shot by police than black suspects. And the decision to shoot is reached much more quickly when the suspect is white than when he is black. This does not fit the common narrative.

    On your side, those studies also showed that when an arrest is occurring the amount of physical force escalates more quickly when the suspect is African-American. In other words, the police will use more physical force more quickly with a minority suspect than with a Caucasian. Black suspects are more likely to be "jostled" than a white person. So I can understand the suspicion African-Americans have regarding this topic.

    But when it comes to being shot by the police, a white suspect is at greater risk than an African-American. This doesn't match the narrative of the media. They don't run stories about unarmed white suspects getting shot though it happens.

    Here's a quote from an article on this subject:

    Among the nearly 500 white victims of fatal police shootings last year was a 50-year-old suspect in a domestic assault call in Tuscaloosa, Ala., who ran at the shooting officer with a spoon; a 28-year-old driver in Des Moines, Iowa, who led police on a chase, then got out of his car and walked quickly toward the shooting officer; and a 21-year-old suspect in a grocery store robbery in Akron, Ohio, who had escaped on a bike and did not remove his hand from his waistband when ordered to do so. from "The Washington Examiner"

    Sounds like similar incidents involving African-American suspects.

    I understand you have these perceptions. It may be because you see African-Americans treated with more suspicion by police than white people, or you have experienced this yourself, or you know that the police are more likely to use an escalated form of physical force when apprehending an African-American. But it isn't true that African-Americans are more likely to be shot by police than whites are. The facts just don't bear this out.

    But many people accept this perception as being true. In the case of Michael Brown in Ferguson that touched off the Black Lives Matter protests, it was assumed Michael Brown was shot unjustly because he was African-American. Many people believe he had his hands up and said don't shoot. This became the rallying cry for BLM. The truth is different. The Eric Holder/ President Obama Justice Department found that eye witness testimony of African-Americans matched the forensic evidence gathered at the scene... Michael Brown reached through the police vehicle driver's side window and grabbed the officer's gun. A struggle for the firearm ensued in which the first gun shot was fired inside the vehicle going through Michael Brown's hand. The DNA evidence inside the vehicle confirmed this, as well as African-American witnesses on the scene. The fatal shots were fired as Michael Brown moved aggressively toward the officer. There were no entry wounds in Brown's back. Eric Holder's investigation exonerated the police officer.

    But that is not the perception. The perception is that Michael Brown was trying to surrender. He wasn't. But this misconception launched the BLM movement.

    This is why there is such a wide gap that exists between what many African-Americans believe about police bias and what many conservatives believe. While I don't have a first-hand knowledge of these things, I am willing to listen to facts and adjust my perceptions based on truth. I cannot say that if I was African-American and grew up in a predominantly African-American neighborhood that I would have the same view I hold now. I probably would be just as certain of police bias as has been expressed by African-Americans on BGP.

    However, there is evidence that can be studied. Every person shot by a police officer is known by name. There is a report on file. All of these incidents can be studied. Patterns can be shown. And the times when there is a bad police shoot, those officers should be held accountable. But if there is no identifiable bias against African-Americans and no higher incidence of police shooting of African-Americans, this should be acknowledged and an effort made to dispel the misconception and misinformation.
    Good luck with that effort. One of the most important things to consider when it comes to that effort is that much of our history and data has been white washed. Add in the fact that black people and white people can watch a video of a black guy being jostled by the police and then dying and both races seeing two different things in the video and more gasoline is thrown on the fire. Now, I’m not saying what you have presented in this post is false. I am saying that you’ll have a real hard time convincing blacks that what you say is true. I believe parts of your post but I still have suspicions that will never be answered about a lot of things. There’s never going to be a situation where a cop kills an unarmed person and the cop turns himself in and says he committed murder. There’s never going to be a situation where a cop turns in another cop for committing a murder in that scenario either. Hell, if I was cop I wouldn’t snitch on a fellow cop either. I get that. That also has to be taken into consideration if we are going to use this hard data. This data came from cops. Cops who if they have to go to great lengths to cover for one another then they will do so. I can’t help but have that mindset about the data you presented. If the data is flawed then the results are also.

    Mike Brown has been discussed at length on here and I am certain you can find threads that evolved from day one of Mike Brown to the result that you posted. I think he is a poor example for anyone to use but a good example to show how the media manipulated data for their own reasons.

  10. #55
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    Reminder to all: If you quote or give data from an article, you must include a link to that article. BGP policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgrappler View Post
    @Hellcats, Did you cull through the data and draw any conclusions?
    Not enough info. We have nearly 1000 people shot by police officers every year, and even in the most recent year on the calculator there was 50+ individuals unidentified.

    This information doesn’t go back too far either. How are we going to have basis to know if we have a problem without accurate data?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    Good luck with that effort. One of the most important things to consider when it comes to that effort is that much of our history and data has been white washed. Add in the fact that black people and white people can watch a video of a black guy being jostled by the police and then dying and both races seeing two different things in the video and more gasoline is thrown on the fire. Now, I’m not saying what you have presented in this post is false. I am saying that you’ll have a real hard time convincing blacks that what you say is true. I believe parts of your post but I still have suspicions that will never be answered about a lot of things. There’s never going to be a situation where a cop kills an unarmed person and the cop turns himself in and says he committed murder. There’s never going to be a situation where a cop turns in another cop for committing a murder in that scenario either. Hell, if I was cop I wouldn’t snitch on a fellow cop either. I get that. That also has to be taken into consideration if we are going to use this hard data. This data came from cops. Cops who if they have to go to great lengths to cover for one another then they will do so. I can’t help but have that mindset about the data you presented. If the data is flawed then the results are also.

    Mike Brown has been discussed at length on here and I am certain you can find threads that evolved from day one of Mike Brown to the result that you posted. I think he is a poor example for anyone to use but a good example to show how the media manipulated data for their own reasons.
    Thanks for reading through my lengthy post and giving it consideration.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgrappler View Post
    Thanks for reading through my lengthy post and giving it consideration.
    No problem. You had some good stuff in there and I hope I was able to provide some insight on how my mind and many other minds of black people work when it comes to conversations like this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    No problem. You had some good stuff in there and I hope I was able to provide some insight on how my mind and many other minds of black people work when it comes to conversations like this one.
    When you have those conversations do you ever take the other side of it?

    oldgrappler posting that part about 4 studies got me a little interested. I see one of them was a Harvard study that found:

    The study was conducted by the Harvard University economist Roland G. Fryer Jr., an African-American, who said it produced "the most surprising result of my career." His team studied over 1,300 police shootings in 10 major police departments over the 2000-2015 span.

    But when it came to shooting the suspects, police officers were more likely to fire without having first been attacked if the suspects were white. Additionally, the study learned that black and white civilians in the shootings were equally likely to be carrying a weapon.

    Harvard Study Finds Police Shoot More White Suspects than Black Ones | Big Think

    This next article says these statistics are based off a 2016 FBI Crime Report:

    Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

    Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers — committed vastly and disproportionately by black males.

    All that kneeling ignores the real cause of soaring black homicides | New York Post

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguru View Post
    When you have those conversations do you ever take the other side of it?

    oldgrappler posting that part about 4 studies got me a little interested. I see one of them was a Harvard study that found:

    The study was conducted by the Harvard University economist Roland G. Fryer Jr., an African-American, who said it produced "the most surprising result of my career." His team studied over 1,300 police shootings in 10 major police departments over the 2000-2015 span.

    But when it came to shooting the suspects, police officers were more likely to fire without having first been attacked if the suspects were white. Additionally, the study learned that black and white civilians in the shootings were equally likely to be carrying a weapon.

    Harvard Study Finds Police Shoot More White Suspects than Black Ones | Big Think

    This next article says these statistics are based off a 2016 FBI Crime Report:

    Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

    Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers — committed vastly and disproportionately by black males.

    All that kneeling ignores the real cause of soaring black homicides | New York Post

    Of course. I’ve been listening to the other side my whole life.

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