Is this socialism or capitalism?

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View Poll Results: Socialism or Capitalism

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  • Socialism

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  • Capitalism

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run To State View Post
    Are you saying the New Testament means nothing since we have the Old Testament? Lol. Why do you think He sent His only Son to this earth? It certainly wasn't to be a politician that supports socialism.
    Yes, it means nothing, it's made up. I don't believe in any of it. But you do. You believe. So now the question is posed back to you, does the word of God, your Lord, in a direct quote of two paragraphs long, mean nothing to you just because He spoke the words before he sent his son?
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    I thunk it's most relevant that they gave, and weren't taxed. I also think it's very relevant that they gave to the church and not the government.
    It doesn't say they gave to the church. And, don't forget the verse in the next chapter where god strikes two people down for only "sharing" a portion.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    Yes, it means nothing, it's made up. I don't believe in any of it. But you do. You believe. So now the question is posed back to you, does the word of God, your Lord, in a direct quote of two paragraphs long, mean nothing to you just because He spoke the words before he sent his son?
    No, it's not made up.

    You don't believe so you can't understand why the New Testament changed everything. And please, stop pretending you're not trying to have a "gotcha" moment, that's exactly what you're trying to do in the above quote. If sending Jesus to save us didn't change anything in the Old Testament, what would be the point?

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    Shared, not taxed.

    Huge difference.
    Not to liberals, as long as it's OTHERS sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Run To State View Post
    Jesus didn't categorically say anything about what his followers should vote for or try to accomplish by means of government. Jesus taught generosity and charity, not government assistance. Now, saying that, I don't have a problem with reasonable government assistance, I do have a problem with Bernie's version of it through socialism.
    The thrust of Jesus' message is to help the needy. It makes no difference whether this assistance comes from a faith community, a government food-stamp program or proceeds from a statewide lottery. The "spirit" of assistance is what is Christ-like ... not the "vehicle" of assistance.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotoplace View Post
    The thrust of Jesus' message is to help the needy. It makes no difference whether this assistance comes from a faith community, a government food-stamp program or proceeds from a statewide lottery. The "spirit" of assistance is what is Christ-like ... not the "vehicle" of assistance.
    Giving of free will, helping others because you care. Not being forced. Jesus taught generosity, Jesus taught charity. Jesus didn't teach socialism. Forcing someone to give isn't giving. Forcing someone to help isn't helping. There's no effort being made. Self-sacrifice for others is what Jesus taught.
    I get some of your point, the problem is government bureaucracy is so abused that it's the poorest way to do anything to help others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Run To State View Post
    Giving of free will, helping others because you care. Not being forced. Jesus taught generosity, Jesus taught charity. Jesus didn't teach socialism. Forcing someone to give isn't giving. Forcing someone to help isn't helping. There's no effort being made. Self-sacrifice for others is what Jesus taught.
    I get some of your point, the problem is government bureaucracy is so abused that it's the poorest way to do anything to help others.
    "Render unto Caesar ..." shoots down your free-will argument. The more this government -- any government -- helps the neediest among us, the more the society that government represents becomes more Christ-like.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run To State View Post
    No, it's not made up.

    You don't believe so you can't understand why the New Testament changed everything. And please, stop pretending you're not trying to have a "gotcha" moment, that's exactly what you're trying to do in the above quote. If sending Jesus to save us didn't change anything in the Old Testament, what would be the point?
    You are dodging the question.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotoplace View Post
    The evidence is solid that Jesus and those who started the Jesus Movement were communalists. If you have evidence indicating otherwise, I'd like to see it. Otherwise, it simply appears that you are among those who have a tough time reconciling Acts chapter 4 with present-day political philosophy.
    I'm not having a hard time reconciling anything.

    Jesus never once forced anyone to give. There were no needy persons among the early church because people voluntarily and generously gave. Then their gifts were distributed to those among them in need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    It doesn't say they gave to the church. And, don't forget the verse in the next chapter where god strikes two people down for only "sharing" a portion.
    It says they put the money at the apostles feet. Do you think that's the church or the government?

    And as it's already been explained in this thread, Ananias and Sapphira were not killed because they didn't give all, but that they lied about giving all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    It says they put the money at the apostles feet. Do you think that's the church or the government?

    And as it's already been explained in this thread, Ananias and Sapphira were not killed because they didn't give all, but that they lied about giving all.
    As it was a group of people giving their possessions to the community as a whole, and as the collection of the possessions of all persons and their subsequent distribution to those who need them is not church business, I will say that it sounds more like a government than a church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    As it was a group of people giving their possessions to the community as a whole, and as the collection of the possessions of all persons and their subsequent distribution to those who need them is not church business, I will say that it sounds more like a government than a church.
    But this was the church and not government. The apostles were not government leaders, but church leaders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    But this was the church and not government. The apostles were not government leaders, but church leaders.
    Just because apostles were involved doesnt mean it was the church. Was the "church" even established at that point? I mean the apostles went into restrooms to pee, doesnt mean the toilet was filled with holy water. If the bible meant for people to give all their worldly possessions to the church, it could have said so.

    In any event, the point is about giving up wealth. Bernie's positions are the most consistent with these principles.

    So where are all the people clamoring for everyone to give all their possessions to the church, if that's what it means.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayfieldFan View Post
    You are dodging the question.
    I'm dodging nothing, you simply don't understand.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotoplace View Post
    "Render unto Caesar ..." shoots down your free-will argument. The more this government -- any government -- helps the neediest among us, the more the society that government represents becomes more Christ-like.
    We disagree on Jesus' message.

    Christ-like isn't about force and it isn't about abusive bureaucracy.

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