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    Default High School Admissions

    In the football thread it was mentioned that Mike Glaser is the director of admissions at St X. I would also point out that at Trinity, the comparable position is held by baseball coach Steve Tompkins. There is nothing illegal about it and I don't mean to imply any wrongdoing, but is this a good idea? Does it feed the feelings of some on the public side that there is athletic recruiting? I would suggest that as part of the negotiations going on right now that the rules prohibit contact between members of the athletic department and potential students after sixth grade. Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    In the football thread it was mentioned that Mike Glaser is the director of admissions at St X. I would also point out that at Trinity, the comparable position is held by baseball coach Steve Tompkins. There is nothing illegal about it and I don't mean to imply any wrongdoing, but is this a good idea? Does it feed the feelings of some on the public side that there is athletic recruiting? I would suggest that as part of the negotiations going on right now that the rules prohibit contact between members of the athletic department and potential students after sixth grade. Thoughts?
    That would need to be for both private and public.

    And the problem with that for the rural schools is that too many of the rural programs that are trying to build programs, spend time, coaching a MS team in the spring and taking them to MS team camps in the summer.

    Also, the MS plays fall basketball leagues with some situations where the HS coach is serving as the MS coach or league director. Those players also move up to the HS level to play in the winter on a freshmen level.

    Remember in alot of rural school situations. 1 MS in the county and 1 HS in the county. No private schools in the county.

    At least that is from my experience in seeing the public school coaches that I am familiar with and is being accused of not working hard enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    That would need to be for both private and public.

    And the problem with that for the rural schools is that too many of the rural programs that are trying to build programs, spend time, coaching a MS team in the spring and taking them to MS team camps in the summer.

    Also, the MS plays fall basketball leagues with some situations where the HS coach is serving as the MS coach or league director. Those players also move up to the HS level to play in the winter on a freshmen level.

    Remember in alot of rural school situations. 1 MS in the county and 1 HS in the county. No private schools in the county.

    At least that is from my experience in seeing the public school coaches that I am familiar with and is being accused of not working hard enough.
    I think that any rules should apply to both public and private. The problem of legitimate contact in camps or middle school coaching is important, especially camps. They can be an important source of income for VERY underpaid coaches. I think that contact in those very structured settings could be worked out.

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    My understanding is coaches may speak to any potential student as long as they do not talk about their specific sport and playing time, etc. You can "sell" your school. You just can't use playing time as a recruiting tool. This comes from Mercy Academy's basketball staff and was confirmed by a former Jefferson County public school coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    In the football thread it was mentioned that Mike Glaser is the director of admissions at St X. I would also point out that at Trinity, the comparable position is held by baseball coach Steve Tompkins. There is nothing illegal about it and I don't mean to imply any wrongdoing, but is this a good idea? Does it feed the feelings of some on the public side that there is athletic recruiting? I would suggest that as part of the negotiations going on right now that the rules prohibit contact between members of the athletic department and potential students after sixth grade. Thoughts?

    I don't see anything wrong with it...if they are the best person for the job that's all really matters.
    Example: I look at Male.... IF Bob Redman holds this position I wouldn't really care....to me he's the best person to promote Male.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rock86
    My understanding is coaches may speak to any potential student as long as they do not talk about their specific sport and playing time, etc. You can "sell" your school. You just can't use playing time as a recruiting tool. This comes from Mercy Academy's basketball staff and was confirmed by a former Jefferson County public school coach.
    Perception is key here. You can talk all you want to some kids and parents about the school. All the parents want to hear is how their kid is the second coming of Jordan, Payton, Bonds, etc. I wish I had a nickel for every parent that says they want what is best for their child academically and in the same breath ask how much playing time they can get as a freshman. It is nearly impossible these days to have a conversation with a parent and not hear questions about playing time and positions. I also get a kick out of the parents that start to try the manipulation game in playing programs from different schools against each other to gain an advantage at one. I understand that high school selection is a very important but some of these parents are counting money from professional signing bonuses before the kids play a minute in High School. We all think our kids are the best this and that. Reality is that only a select few are D1 prospects and an even smaller percentage of those are pro prospects. Sorry, I got off on a tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GR8BigBull
    Perception is key here. You can talk all you want to some kids and parents about the school. All the parents want to hear is how their kid is the second coming of Jordan, Payton, Bonds, etc. I wish I had a nickel for every parent that says they want what is best for their child academically and in the same breath ask how much playing time they can get as a freshman. It is nearly impossible these days to have a conversation with a parent and not hear questions about playing time and positions. I also get a kick out of the parents that start to try the manipulation game in playing programs from different schools against each other to gain an advantage at one. I understand that high school selection is a very important but some of these parents are counting money from professional signing bonuses before the kids play a minute in High School. We all think our kids are the best this and that. Reality is that only a select few are D1 prospects and an even smaller percentage of those are pro prospects. Sorry, I got off on a tangent.
    I agree that perception is key. If people see a coach talking to a prospective student there is a tendancy to think that something is going on. I think one way to reduce that perception is to keep the athletic staff out of the recruiting business. The rules allow schools to recruit students. They don't allow recruiting for athletic purposes. Having coaches do the general recruiting feeds the perception that athletic recruiting is happening. I think it would be a fairly simple rule modification to take the athletic staff out of all recruiting. Then there couldn't be any question about whether or not the recruiting was proper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I agree that perception is key. If people see a coach talking to a prospective student there is a tendancy to think that something is going on. I think one way to reduce that perception is to keep the athletic staff out of the recruiting business. The rules allow schools to recruit students. They don't allow recruiting for athletic purposes. Having coaches do the general recruiting feeds the perception that athletic recruiting is happening. I think it would be a fairly simple rule modification to take the athletic staff out of all recruiting. Then there couldn't be any question about whether or not the recruiting was proper.

    I don't disagree with what you are saying but even if athletic departments/coaches are kept out people are still going to talk...that's just how people are...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I think that any rules should apply to both public and private. The problem of legitimate contact in camps or middle school coaching is important, especially camps. They can be an important source of income for VERY underpaid coaches. I think that contact in those very structured settings could be worked out.
    If possible, 1,000% correct on the bolded.

    I understand that I do not want to call anyone's ethics into question.

    But if you have 2 students that are getting in, and I am assuming here that private schools have a cap because of space and teachers, and 1 is 6'3" female center while the other has no outstanding skills outside of the classroom, it would be EXTREMELY hard based on human nature, not to give the little extra push for the center. If the basketball coach was the admissions director.

    I went to college at a very hard academic and financial restraining college. I was told by the admissions director that 20 students got turned down for every student that was accepted. One of our support staff members was the director of admissions. Not many of the basketball players that our coach wanted got turned down.

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    This is all true, we all know that if you see a member of a high school staff at a game watching someone, other than a child of their own, then they are essentially there to recruit. So then there should never be a member of any staff at an optimist game unless they personally have a child there playing or cheering. That would create an even larger difference than already exists between certain programs. So while I agree that the only way to end the misconception about a coach talking to anybody at a youth league event is recruiting. I do not think it solves any "problems." Why would a school want a coach out recruiting students and why would a coach actually want to go out and talk to a student if they can not play a sport? A coach surely does not expect an administration to go out and find students that fit an athletic profile. If public schools are going to offer mens and womens sports and Title IX exists then a strong football program is a must. The money to fund competitive and successful athletic programs has to come from somewhere. Some things just have to happen if ANY of a schools' athletic programs are to succeed. As much as some want to deny it, numbers, in the form of players and money, translate into successful teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    If possible, 1,000% correct on the bolded.

    I understand that I do not want to call anyone's ethics into question.

    But if you have 2 students that are getting in, and I am assuming here that private schools have a cap because of space and teachers, and 1 is 6'3" female center while the other has no outstanding skills outside of the classroom, it would be EXTREMELY hard based on human nature, not to give the little extra push for the center. If the basketball coach was the admissions director.

    I went to college at a very hard academic and financial restraining college. I was told by the admissions director that 20 students got turned down for every student that was accepted. One of our support staff members was the director of admissions. Not many of the basketball players that our coach wanted got turned down.
    I can only tell you how it works at Trinity. When the school gets full and more students want in, we build more classrooms, labs etc. Over the past few years Trinity has had a great building boom, most of it non-athletic, because of the demand for admissions. The money comes from tapping the members of the Trinity family. Tuition money is not used to build. We believe in the school so strongly that decades after leaving Trinity, we still want to support the next generation of Shamrocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDanza
    I don't disagree with what you are saying but even if athletic departments/coaches are kept out people are still going to talk...that's just how people are...
    And that is part of the reason I think we should keep the athletic staff away from recruiting. If a parant or kid wants to talk sports, it would be very hard for a coach to refuse to discuss things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    I can only tell you how it works at Trinity. When the school gets full and more students want in, we build more classrooms, labs etc. Over the past few years Trinity has had a great building boom, most of it non-athletic, because of the demand for admissions. The money comes from tapping the members of the Trinity family. Tuition money is not used to build. We believe in the school so strongly that decades after leaving Trinity, we still want to support the next generation of Shamrocks.
    I don't think you can build a classroom that fast can you?

    Let's say they have spacing for 2,000 students and 2500 apply for this fall. What will happen at that time? You cannot get teachers and classrooms for 500 by the fall, can you?

    So it will fall on making the decisions on some students. What criteria is used to make that decision?

    I am ignorant on this matter, and others, so I will defer to the private school supporters on here. Just a public school coach trying to understand better. To quote Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    I don't think you can build a classroom that fast can you?

    Let's say they have spacing for 2,000 students and 2500 apply for this fall. What will happen at that time? You cannot get teachers and classrooms for 500 by the fall, can you?

    So it will fall on making the decisions on some students. What criteria is used to make that decision?

    I am ignorant on this matter, and others, so I will defer to the private school supporters on here. Just a public school coach trying to understand better. To quote Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along."
    If the enrollment change was that abrupt, we'd have to figure it out. Fortunately, the leadership at the school plans ahead. I know that right now they try to make sure that every teacher has his or her own classroom. A few years ago when the enrollment took a big jump they made use of classrooms that were vacant during the "home" teachers free period. That took up the slack. In the past few years we have added 25 classrooms, two science labs and made 100 percent of the campus handicap accesible. That is in addition to the much more publicized athletic improvements. If more students come, the Lord will help us to find a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    If the enrollment change was that abrupt, we'd have to figure it out. Fortunately, the leadership at the school plans ahead. I know that right now they try to make sure that every teacher has his or her own classroom. A few years ago when the enrollment took a big jump they made use of classrooms that were vacant during the "home" teachers free period. That took up the slack. In the past few years we have added 25 classrooms, two science labs and made 100 percent of the campus handicap accesible. That is in addition to the much more publicized athletic improvements. If more students come, the Lord will help us to find a way.
    From speaking with several teachers I gather they are happy with 1500 as an informal cap. Jefferson County doesn't have enrollment shifts that large (500) very often. Busing in 1975 was the last push. Trinity's growth has been a steady growth. Trinity is also aware that every child who enters does not complete the four year program. I'd say making additional use of theatre venue and the large room in the "Armory", etc. Trinity could squueze another 200 if needed. Finding 8 new teachers would be tough but do-able.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rock86
    From speaking with several teachers I gather they are happy with 1500 as an informal cap. Jefferson County doesn't have enrollment shifts that large (500) very often. Busing in 1975 was the last push. Trinity's growth has been a steady growth. Trinity is also aware that every child who enters does not complete the four year program. I'd say making additional use of theatre venue and the large room in the "Armory", etc. Trinity could squueze another 200 if needed. Finding 8 new teachers would be tough but do-able.

    I know one BGP member that would jump at the chance to be a teacher at T right now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    But if you have 2 students that are getting in, and I am assuming here that private schools have a cap because of space and teachers, and 1 is 6'3" female center while the other has no outstanding skills outside of the classroom, it would be EXTREMELY hard based on human nature, not to give the little extra push for the center. If the basketball coach was the admissions director.
    .
    Trinity doesn't have that problem currently and to my knowledge has never had this problem at all. St. Xavier does have an entrance exam minimum score. To my knowledge, none of the Louisville area private schools are "completely" full. There's always room for one more.

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    Thanks for the information and I liked TA's comment that "the Lord would help us find a way."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    If possible, 1,000% correct on the bolded.

    I understand that I do not want to call anyone's ethics into question.

    But if you have 2 students that are getting in, and I am assuming here that private schools have a cap because of space and teachers, and 1 is 6'3" female center while the other has no outstanding skills outside of the classroom, it would be EXTREMELY hard based on human nature, not to give the little extra push for the center. If the basketball coach was the admissions director.

    I went to college at a very hard academic and financial restraining college. I was told by the admissions director that 20 students got turned down for every student that was accepted. One of our support staff members was the director of admissions. Not many of the basketball players that our coach wanted got turned down.
    Your hypothetical may be true in some instances, but I can give you a specific example regarding Mike Glaser. My oldest son was in the eighth grade a number of years ago. He went to shadow at St. Xavier with a classmate who happened to be the best Catholic football and basketball player in Louisville that year. My son was a fair grade school basketball player (he he never played high school basketball) and he did not play football at all. I was the parent who picked up my son and the classmate who was a star athlete. While at the school, but out of sight of these two eighth graders, I saw coach Glaser walking up the hall. He stopped and talked with the two eighth graders for two or three minutes. To my skeptical surprise, the majority of the attention and conversation from coach Glaser in that instance was directed toward my son. Neither Glaser nor the two boys were aware that I was a distance away observing their conversation. I did not know Glaser, and he did not know me. This behavior by Mr. Glaser made an impression on me, and I sent my son to St. X. My second son attends St. X now, and I have seen this attitude repeated countless times. No matter who you are, no matter how intelligent , no matter how athletically talented, no matter how wealthy, you are treated the same.