Breaking: School Shooting at FL High School

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  1. #166
    oldgrappler's Avatar
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    @TheDeuce gave us the definition for "terror." Terror isn't the same thing as "terrorism."

    Terrorism has to do with acts of violence and intimidation, usually against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

    So one's motives and associations are what differentiate between a criminal act, such as murder, and what has become known as terrorism. If the shooter was connected to a group that has issues with government policy or activity here or around the world and his actions are intended to further that cause, that is terrorism. If he acted out of a personal grudge or revenge for a perceived injustice against him, that is a crime, it is mass murder and created terror among the students and teachers present, but it is not terrorism.

    Ideology as a motive seems to be the difference. So if a Muslim shoots up a work place because his wife was an employee and people made fun of her for wearing a hijab and accused her of not being enough of a feminist, etc., that is a personal grudge and the crime of murder but not terrorism. If a Muslim shoots up a place of work because he has allied with ISIS and they encourage that sort of thing and he was doing it to take revenge against American policy in the Middle East, it is terrorism. In either case, mental illness may or may not play a role. According to this distinction, Timothy McVey was a terrorist. The current guy may be not if his motive was personal rather than political/religious.
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  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    I know. Guns seem to be the issue at hand.
    Today it is. A few weeks ago in town it was a guy who was under the influence and killed a family of 5. Mass killing?
    Yes. And that was the issue at hand.
    Do we stop selling cars and booze?

  3. #168
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    Sorry for piling on. Those previous posts were completed while I was typing my own and I did not see them.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    That isn't how the US Government defines it is it? And I googled it and that was not the first definition I saw, so where did you find that?

    According to that definition, a car crash, or a home invasion could be considered terrorism, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cat View Post
    I think your using the wrong definition here. Terror is different that terrorism. You can have night terros, be terrified of heights, etc.

    Per dictionary.com - Terrorism, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

    Per that definition at this time I see no reason as to why this should be labeled as terrorism. IMO, not all violent acts are terrorism.
    Although I feel like it should have been obviously, I will add "IMO" to the fact that I think this is domestic terrorism.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qryche11 View Post
    How do you know he wasnt mentally ill?
    I don't, just like the crowd painting him as mentally ill doesn't.

    My point is, some of these incidents are immediately steered towards mental illness while others aren't.

  6. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    I don't, just like the crowd painting him as mentally ill doesn't.

    My point is, some of these incidents are immediately steered towards mental illness while others aren't.
    Ohh leaning towards race issue and how society describes the criminal.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    Although I feel like it should have been obviously, I will add "IMO" to the fact that I think this is domestic terrorism.
    How was it obvious? You used a definition... the wrong one, but a definition.

    Your definition would mean a home invasion is domestic terrorism. Or a car crash...or many things.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Murder is the issue imo...and murder is illegal.

    We don't blame the truck when it's used as a weapon.
    Horrible analogy. The purpose for the use of a truck isn’t to kill.

  9. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    Horrible analogy. The purpose for the use of a truck isn’t to kill.
    And furthermore, the argument that "guns don't kill people" only sidesteps the issue. Clearly, guns can't spontaneously shoot someone, and that's not the issue. The issue is how efficiently they do so, and the amount of damage that can be done, with little to no training. Lots of things are used to kill people. Guns can be used to kill a lot of people at once. And they are being used to do so at ever increasing and alarming rates.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs4470 View Post
    And furthermore, the argument that "guns don't kill people" only sidesteps the issue. Clearly, guns can't spontaneously shoot someone, and that's not the issue. The issue is how efficiently they do so, and the amount of damage that can be done, with little to no training. Lots of things are used to kill people. Guns can be used to kill a lot of people at once. And they are being used to do so at ever increasing and alarming rates.
    What are those rates? Based on population, how much has the murder rate increased in this country?

  11. #176

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    Today, there was a school wide announcement made addressing the shooting in Florida and our principal reviewed some safety procedures to prevent an instance like this as well as what to do if an incident occurs.
    One of my students then asked me if teachers were put through any additional training to handle these situations that students didn't know about. I thought the way he phrased the question was odd so asked what he meant and he brought up a point I hadn't thought of. Most school shooters are current or past students of that particular school. They know the procedures, the safety areas of classrooms, the layout of the school, etc... In theory, if the shooter takes enough time to plan, they can use this info to cause more harm.
    Obviously you want to give students any info available to help them remain safe but I am curious if there could almost be some type of plan that only staff are aware of as a type of 'invisible shield'... I'm not sure what that would be or if it would even be possible but if there was some way to change the plan of the shooter it may rattle them enough to save extra lives.
    Curious to your thoughts...

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePride92 View Post
    Horrible analogy. The purpose for the use of a truck isnít to kill.
    The only purpose of a gun is to kill people, is that what you are insinuating?

    Cars kill more people than guns every year. My point is, it isn't the cars fault. It's the person driving more often than not.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    How was it obvious? You used a definition... the wrong one, but a definition.

    Your definition would mean a home invasion is domestic terrorism. Or a car crash...or many things.
    Whatever you say.

  14. #179

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    I just read that the FBI was contacted about this guy 5 months ago.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    The only purpose of a gun is to kill people, is that what you are insinuating?

    Cars kill more people than guns every year. My point is, it isn't the cars fault. It's the person driving more often than not.
    I have hesitated on jumping into this discussion, but will make this point. What is the value of a gun versus a car? The value a car brings to people is huge compared to the value a gun brings.

    If you put together a list of pros and cons of guns in our society - their impact and value, it would be pretty difficult I believe for the pros to having guns outweighing the cons.

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