Baltimore Mayor says space was provided for those who wished to destroy stuff.

Page 9 of Originally Posted by Hellbird There is also a reason I get outraged by people who weren't dealt a bad hand but act upon the few that may have gotten de... 371 comments | 13370 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #121

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    Baltimore Sun Video@BaltSunVid 2h2 hours ago VIDEO: Bloods and Crips come together to call for calm in #Baltimore - http://bsun.md/1HRJYjB pic.twitter.com/oBcLfPxmBn
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    Article from The Atlantic that addresses some of what's been discussed here in terms of the violence/non-violence as a means of change debate.


    "When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse."


    "Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson...."

    As Riots Follow Freddie Gray's Death in Baltimore, Calls for Calm Ring Hollow - The Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beechwoodfan View Post
    I have been watching this on Fox. They just had a black police officer who said something very interesting and I believe true. He said that most black citizens in Baltimore are good law abiding people. The people out there rioting are criminals who likely would have killed Freddie Gray themselves if he so much as bumped into them at a nightclub. Those weren't his exact words, but the general context.
    Pretty much what I said at the exact time you did during a grill out. These low life's are opportunistic and nothing more. They could give two double shares of cow poop whether or not he Was black or white. What they saw was opportunity. However once you get things going it's easier to get others involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    I think hellbirds point is Obama shouldn't have called the officer stupid before he knew exactly what happened.
    Don't want this to get too off topic, but it's not really as if he should have said, "that officer sure made a great decision by arresting this lauded Harvard professor in his own home" either. I think that'd have been much more of a head scratcher.

    I'm really struggling to understand some of the warped logic in all this hate for Gates. I'd imagine that if most of us were in that situation, there'd be some confusion at best if someone tries to arrest you for breaking into your own home. Once you and a colleague are able to show ID or able to provide other easily obtainable proof that indicates that you clearly belong in that neighborhood and home (if nothing else, the address is probably on his license, or he could go radio it in and quickly find out what was going on).

    I think it's a bit much to heap tons of praise on an officer for overlooking the blatantly obvious and getting so butt-hurt that he takes a guy to jail over his own mistake.

    I mean, how dare that Yale law graduate think he knows more than a cop running down disturbance calls? How dare an educated black man feel insulted for being accused of breaking into his own home, right?

    Honestly, I thought Obama could have been much harder on the guy and that he's probably lucky to have been a guest at the White House instead of Gates getting people even more riled up and really throwing his weight around.

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    Continuing on the above thought, Obama is really in a no-win situation.

    When it's an officer who is accused, everyone here wants to say, "let's gather all the facts first". That's okay and that's fine, it's what we should do (though speculating has it's place too). But when it comes to any high profile incident involving race, Obama is expected to be the ambassador of our country's deep, on-going history of racial tensions, and judging from some of the comments, he's apparently supposed to immediately put on his Superman cape and do something to immediately cease decades-old social unrest.

    It's honestly not an enviable situation. When he gives the "we're investigating", some people on the are going to be all over him for not condemning someone soon enough for their liking. For them, if he gives a "let's gather all the facts", it's quickly going to turn into talks of a cover-up, conspiracy, or investigation that reflects whatever he wants it to.

    If he moves too quickly comes out and publicly chastises someone when it turns out to be false, then lots of people, whichever side they may be on are going to want his head. Even worse, you can't make both happy, but you can make both mad.

    Either way, the people who aren't for him are going to bash him regardless, and he'll likely never win them over.

    Gather facts? Conspiracy! Cover-up! Scandal!

    Speak immediately and quell unrest? Spoke too soon! Should have got all the facts!


    This isn't even mentioning what a dangerous political proposition it is for him when he makes a misstep in the eyes of any of his most loyal supporters. A majority of the people who are going to see fault will see it regardless, so his base is what he really has to cling to.

    One of the closest Presidents to his situation in more modern times is probably John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic President. However, I think it's fair to say that Kennedy didn't face that kind of pressure in terms of an and/or of either appeasing constituents who shared his religion and/or those who didn't agree with him and would use anything as a means of voicing their displeasure and making their point.

    In lots of ways, I think it's sad that people only see the color of his skin and ask that he fix things that have been prevalent for so long. Number one, it isn't just his job to fix them. Number two, if there were a good answer, then someone before him (pick any of your favorite Presidents) must have failed to improve those same things on at least some levels, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

    To assume that he should have the best answer and all these fixes, and that they should immediately take hold and turn everything around is somewhat akin to saying that Dirk Nowitzki should be able to repair a broken down Porsche that was towed to your garage in the 80's because he's a German guy and it's a German car. It's a little more complex than that. Building the car, replacing the parts, etc. those are things that occurred long before his watch. Maybe he'll do what he can and would probably do better than the average American because he's familiar with the language and the metric system, but unless Dirk is secretly a gear head, he's probably not going to be able to get it back on the road. He has to do it himself too because heaven forbid he spend some of Mark Cuban's money on it, as that's opening another can of worms in and of itself.

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    And your point? John Gotti did a heck of a lot for many many people in his neighborhood, so should we have excused him for his crimes?

    As was mentioned, three gangs, had a meeting Baltimore which was about targeting police officers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djason Unchained View Post
    The ones looting, rioting, etc aren't doing it in the name of protest. Even MLK would be able to see that. He'd say the same thing a lot of black people are saying but that white people choose to ignore. He'd be trying to let people know that the looters aren't protestors and that they need to stop what they are doing. There are so many blacks speaking out against these violent acts as well as other acts in other cities but white people and the media choose to focus on the blacks who 'condone' it.


    Carry on though.....
    What you seem to refuse to understand is the looters are calling themselves protesters. You need to explain the difference to them, not us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    What you seem to refuse to understand is the looters are calling themselves protesters. You need to explain the difference to them, not us.
    Nah, not the ones I am paying attention to. You keep following the mainstream media and the idiots they keep putting on television. I'll continue to follow the same folks I follow on twitter who present a better picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsGuy41017 View Post
    And your point? John Gotti did a heck of a lot for many many people in his neighborhood, so should we have excused him for his crimes?

    As was mentioned, three gangs, had a meeting Baltimore which was about targeting police officers.
    Says the media. Again, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I keep seeing on twitter. And it was two gangs and the Nation of Islam. Not 3 gangs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    What you seem to refuse to understand is the looters are calling themselves protesters. You need to explain the difference to them, not us.
    That's kind of like saying people who want to call themselves Christians need to explain their differences to the people of Westboro Baptist church or other religious extremists and to get them to stop calling themselves churches.

    It's not really his place to explain that to them based on his statement any more than it is yours or mine. Everyone is recognizing it, so there's not really an argument about them being "protestors" between anyone here that I know of.

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    I grew up in the suburbs of Baltimore back in the day. Didn't get into the city very much except to go to a ballgame or an occasional dinner.

    And everybody knew that you didn't even want to LOOK at a Baltimore city cop the wrong way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djason Unchained View Post
    I'm amazed it has taken until 2015 for some people to understand this truth.
    Both sides have understood it for fifty years, neither cares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    No offense, but I really don't want to live in a country where a Harvard professor is arrested for breaking into his own home. I'll gladly take our scientific progress, especially in the medical and tech fields instead of having brain drain and investments elsewhere. Look what oppression has gotten some of the former Eastern Bloc countries.

    Your Henry Gates analogy is completely lost on me. In a town with a reputation like Boston, I can understand why someone who was named one of Time's most influential Americans in 1997, a Yale law graduate with more awards and distinctions than we can count, would be upset by some low-rent goof who doesn't realize what's going on. It's not really occurring to people that maybe the officer was a bit stupid (or at least fair to say he probably isn't as sharp as Gates).

    Gates is now more synonymous with an arrest where the charges were quickly dropped than all his accomplishments, which is quite unfortunate. By all means though, please bash away.

    Those who'd read the whole story, you'd know that one of Gates' colleagues was there and had also showed his ID, as well as his Harvard work ID to no avail. You'd also know that the officer had refused a request to provide his badge number, which is a no-no.

    But, by all means, how dare Gates and his colleague ever even think of insulting the considerable achievements of some 50-year-old who is still responding to disturbance calls and can't see the forest for the trees when he gets there.

    Fact of life: most people who've accomplished a lot (and I'm not one of them) are pretentious. I've met doctors and surgeons who are downright arrogant, but I'd still go to them if my life depended on it because they are good at what they do. It's something that just goes with the territory when it comes to people who've accomplished things.

    This isn't an "I hate cops" thing, it's more of a "don't mess with the wrong people and get caught in the blowback". If Gates were as petty as the officer who had to take someone to jail rather than admit he was wrong, then he'd have had the dude's job long ago, as I imagine that he has the means to do so if he really wanted to exert his influence.

    One guy is a distinguished Harvard professor. One guy is the guy who tells the papers he isn't racist because he performed CPR on Len Bias. Maybe Gates was insulted and felt the guy was stupid because.... dum, dum, dum-- he was stupid.
    The comment in bold is inflammatory and insulting. Just because the guy is a cop doesn't make him low rent.

    I'm sure if you were being car jacked you would love to see this low rent goof show up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    That's kind of like saying people who want to call themselves Christians need to explain their differences to the people of Westboro Baptist church or other religious extremists and to get them to stop calling themselves churches.

    It's not really his place to explain that to them based on his statement any more than it is yours or mine. Everyone is recognizing it, so there's not really an argument about them being "protestors" between anyone here that I know of.
    If it is happening in my neighborhood, I will be pointing out the difference.

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