Another private school post season play vote?

Page 12 of Originally Posted by westsider To a certain extent, I would disagree with that. I think athletes want a chance to compete for a championship. My gues i... 410 comments | 15907 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasbeen
    May I suggest that in the future when one of our members is out of line, instead of suspension they should be required to read every post in a public vs private thread. I can't think of a more severe punishment. If someone actually changes their original opinion due to something they read here, wake me up.
    Several private school supporters have posted things and views I have never considered. While I may not have 100% changed my mind, my stance has soften and mellowed. So count me as one of those individuals that you don't think exists AND SOMEONE WAKE HASBEEN UP.
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  2. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherneck
    So perturbed at the fallacy of the 2nd para or wherever it was in your post that I didn't bother to read any further. No one will deny that some schools have advantages over the other. The difference is that a lot of folks think those advantages were earned not given. Do mention the large alumni groups of St X or T as an advantage. Many many schools have more graduates. Energize them. I know it won't be easy, but do it anyway. If you are committed to doing it, it will get done. If there are zero golf courses in your county, pick up your golfers one aweek during the off season and drive them to the closest golf course even if its in the next county.
    Coaches are not allowed to do that until June 1st and then have to take that time off during the dead period from June 25th through July 9th. THis season I did offer a ton of information to parents about the 7Up tour, camps/leagues in NKY to gauge the response of the parents. I believe 2 out of 11 attending some sort of summer program. So, at this point I will reevaluate and am looking at other options. If I start a spring golf league the girls cannot participate because I am the coordinator of such league and may end up coaching them.

    One of the advantages that private schools have and AGAIN THEY SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED FOR THIS ADVANTAGE, IT IS SIMPLY AN ADVANTAGE, is that they have resources, qualified individuals, that would be willing to coordinate a league. I am searching for one. There out there, just have to work a little harder to find them.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    It is simply not that simple. It might be for the 4A public city schools but it is not that simple for the rural county schools.

    Good example is golf. $2500 to be a member of the country club in my county. Only 5 of my 14 golfers are members. Can't afford it. So they get to play 2 months out of the year. I feel safe in saying that Notre Dame, Bishop Brossart, Villa Madonna, Lex Catholic, etc. more than 40% of their golfers find themselves as members of a country club.

    I am NOT saying separate the two, but saying the situation is unequal and there is a distinct advantage. So when you say simply hire better coaches, you got to remember that rural, public school coaches have to do MORE and a BETTER job than the private school coaches, because the private school coaches are usually starting with better polished athletes. Unless you feel that a golfer can be just as good playing 2 months out of the year vs. a golfer than can play from April through October everyday of the week.
    First off, Brossart and Villa have absolutely dominated Kentucky golf with their "country club kids", and should be banned from statewide golf competition!!

    The argument that schools with a majority of kids who belong to country clubs have better golf teams, and thus should be put in a separate class for statewide competition; is like saying school "?" in an inner city can't compete in the Sweet Sixteen, because they have kids who play baketball year round and have an unfair advantage over kids with other interests!!

    Once again guys--CAN YOU SAY NUMBERS?? Chosing a golf (or football, tennis, swimming, baseball, basketball, track, debate, science, etc.) team from 1700 students vs. 300 students; chances are the larger school will win the majority of the time. I think it's called mathmatics!! Are there exceptions, of course; but in the long run numbers will usually win out, especially when combined with a great support system.

  4. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGGreen
    First off, Brossart and Villa have absolutely dominated Kentucky golf with their "country club kids", and should be banned from statewide golf competition!!

    The argument that schools with a majority of kids who belong to country clubs have better golf teams, and thus should be put in a separate class for statewide competition; is like saying school "?" in an inner city can't compete in the Sweet Sixteen, because they have kids who play baketball year round and have an unfair advantage over kids with other interests!!

    Once again guys--CAN YOU SAY NUMBERS?? Chosing a golf (or football, tennis, swimming, baseball, basketball, track, debate, science, etc.) team from 1700 students vs. 300 students; chances are the larger school will win the majority of the time. I think it's called mathmatics!! Are there exceptions, of course; but in the long run numbers will usually win out, especially when combined with a great support system.
    For the bolded part
    Ask this question of Campbell County's girls golf coach. He can ONLY get 4 girls to come out and play. He went to the middle school and asked. 4 girls that is it. THe girls tell him that the girls they know that play golf attend.................ready for it............can you guess...........suspense is high........yep, that is right............Brossart.

  5. #170
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    This vote will pass folks, like it or not. Too many AD's think they will actually have a shot with the privates out of the mix. I foresee another vote in 5 years to kick out Highlands, Male, ManuAl and any other public teams that fill the void. Iím not too sure why they will kick them out, but they will. And on and on it will go. Welcome to the dumbing down of KHSAA.

    I can't wait to be at the first RPHSAA championship game!!!

    Link to RPHSAA.

  6. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    For the bolded part
    Ask this question of Campbell County's girls golf coach. He can ONLY get 4 girls to come out and play. He went to the middle school and asked. 4 girls that is it. THe girls tell him that the girls they know that play golf attend.................ready for it............can you guess...........suspense is high........yep, that is right............Brossart.
    First of all its a school. Schools have sports teams if there is enough interest in their student body to create a team. Their are many schools that serve very sparsely populated areas with similar issues. But lets not forget that the first function of the school is educate the kids, plain and simple. I don't know of it happening but what if some kid at Central in the west end of Louisville wanted to be a part of some FFA competition? Should we complain that all the rural schools have all the good farm land and livestock? Should we level the playing field? FYI, life's playing field isn't level but in America we take pride in the quest for victory as much as the victory itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSURock
    First of all its a school. Schools have sports teams if there is enough interest in their student body to create a team. Their are many schools that serve very sparsely populated areas with similar issues. But lets not forget that the first function of the school is educate the kids, plain and simple. I don't know of it happening but what if some kid at Central in the west end of Louisville wanted to be a part of some FFA competition? Should we complain that all the rural schools have all the good farm land and livestock? Should we level the playing field? FYI, life's playing field isn't level but in America we take pride in the quest for victory as much as the victory itself.
    Funny you mentioned FFA because over the past few years, some changes in FFA have occurred. A lot of FFA programs now have greenhouses that allows schools were the kids don't have access to rural farming land to be involved in this classroom opportunity. Some of the classes have changed to lead towards the growing industry of lawn management. FFA did alter some of their programs to address this need you mention and allow city schools to have an option where lack of farming land prevents this option.

    So as far as the schoolwork you mention, I guess you could look at it as FFA changing the playing field so that inner city schools do have the opportunity to compete.

  8. #173

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    How about we just add a 5th class, call it the too competitive class, and let them play by themselves:

    Beechwood
    CovCath
    Highlands
    Boyle Co.
    Danville
    Mayfield
    Male
    Trinity
    St. Xavier
    Belfry

    Would that make everyone happier? Then we can guarantee that their will be virtually new champions in every class for the next few years. Then, after new consistent winners are established, we could have those teams join 5A as well.

    I can't get over the amount of conversation this topic gets every year. It doesn't seem to be a public v. private debate, at its root. It seems to be a consistent-winners bashing, that frankly, makes me chuckle.

  9. #174
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    What's comical to me in this debate is that the complaints are primarily centered on three private institutions, two of which have HUGE size advantages on the other schools with which they compete.

    Having more knowledge regarding the situation in NKY, where we have a larger number of private institutiions percentagewise, than probably any other area of the state; I just don't see the dominance, to the point of calling for a separation?? Looking at the major sports, who dominates up here in statewide competition??

    Football--Beechwood in 1-A and Highlands in 3-A, both public schools!! CovCath is always a contender in 3-A, as is NCC in 1-A, but normally bow out to one of the above. 4-A (no private reps) and 2-A dominated by public schools.
    Basketball--No one dominant team. Several different 9th regions reps in the last ten years, with seven or eight being publics if memory serves me. 10th has been all publics, but one I think.
    Baseball--CovCath probably the only program consistantly in the top 5 over the last several years among the privates, but Dixie, Conner, Scott, Campbell, etc. have been right there.

    And as for the privates having these vastly superior facilities--You couldn't be more off base!!!! The finest facilities not only up here, but across the state; from a standpoint of school buildings, gyms, football fields, labs, etc. are overwhelmingly in favor of the public schools.

    As for the blanket statements on here that ALL private schools have these HUGE advantages over public schools across the board--I just don't see where your coming from?? Are there a couple of private schools who have some advantages--Probably (but size is still the most improtant factor); but an all encompassing statement to that effect is just as wrong as the "hire better coaches" or "privates work harder" statements!!

  10. #175

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    KHSAA expects 'split' proposal

    The proposal would allow for regular-season competition between both sides but two divisions for postseason play.

    If a split happens, the LAST thing I want the private schools to do is play regular-season games against public schools. We're either in, or we're out, but you can't have your cake and eat it to! Compete throughout, or don't compete at all. :fight: :fight:

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    BGGreen, that is why I think the issue really boils down to a winners / non-winners issue. I think there are a group of ADs and administrators around the state that are secretly boiling because the football titles are typically shared by some combination of 10 or 11 schools. I could be as wet as an umbrella in Seattle, I just think this stems more from that issue, at some level, than the public / private debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    If a split happens, the LAST thing I want the private schools to do is play regular-season games against public schools. We're either in, or we're out, but you can't have your cake and eat it to! Compete throughout, or don't compete at all. :fight: :fight:
    I am sure / would hope that most "private" school ADs would follow suit with that. At least in general. I am sure your tradtional rivalries would still happen (CCH v. Highlands...but I will be surprised if HHS "independent" status wouldn't get them booted too).

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    The one thing that everyone needs to realize too, is that this proposal and vote is not coming from the supposed "ivory" tower (that some sarcastically refer to) in Lexington. This proposal would be from a school, assuming public, and the vote will be made by the schools. The HS across the state will decide this issue, not the board of control or the commissioner's office. So don't rake them over the coals, no matter how the vote goes.

  14. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity alum
    If Bill Gates decided to open a computer company and take on IBM, do you think IBM had an advantage over him? Was he able to compete against them? Something to think about.

    With that said, I do believe that the private schools have some very significant advantages. They have to because they also have a nearly $8,000 per year disadvantage. It only stands to reason that they must have some advantages that overcome the $8,000 disadvantage. I think that the thing that gets me upset about this conversation is that the advantages of the private schools are self generated. I have trouble when people say that the private schools have more resources, since we generate those resources ourselves, AFTER we have paid for the tuition. A school like Trinity is able to exist and be open to all economic classes only because there are many folks that have a very strong belief that what Trinity provides is worth preserving and continue to provide generous support long after they graduate. My sons have graduated, but now I need to make sure that Trinity is there for my grandsons. When someone says that the private schools have more resources, I wonder how they voted on the last school tax referendum? When was the last time they wrote out a check to their school's library? When was the last time they wrote out a check to their school's athletic program? When was the last time they worked or attended a fund raiser? I know that many will say that they do all of those things. Will you still be doing it long after your children have graduated? Will you sill be doing it when your high school years are only a distant memory? I received a copy of the Trinity Leader yesterday. As always, the list of donations from long ago graduates is amazing.

    For those that believe that the private schools are only for the rich, think about this. About forty percent of the Trinity students receive financial aid. On top of that, generous donations keep the tuition about $2,000 below the actual cost of the education.

    If you want more resources for your school, start a petition to raise school taxes. Start a campaign to create an endowment for your school system. Make the first check to the endowment yours.

    By the way, this post is not directed at LBBC. The response to the Bill Gates comment is the only part that was directed at LBBC.

  15. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGGreen
    What's comical to me in this debate is that the complaints are primarily centered on three private institutions, two of which have HUGE size advantages on the other schools with which they compete.

    Having more knowledge regarding the situation in NKY, where we have a larger number of private institutiions percentagewise, than probably any other area of the state; I just don't see the dominance, to the point of calling for a separation?? Looking at the major sports, who dominates up here in statewide competition??

    Football--Beechwood in 1-A and Highlands in 3-A, both public schools!! CovCath is always a contender in 3-A, as is NCC in 1-A, but normally bow out to one of the above. 4-A (no private reps) and 2-A dominated by public schools.
    Basketball--No one dominant team. Several different 9th regions reps in the last ten years, with seven or eight being publics if memory serves me. 10th has been all publics, but one I think.
    Baseball--CovCath probably the only program consistantly in the top 5 over the last several years among the privates, but Dixie, Conner, Scott, Campbell, etc. have been right there.

    And as for the privates having these vastly superior facilities--You couldn't be more off base!!!! The finest facilities not only up here, but across the state; from a standpoint of school buildings, gyms, football fields, labs, etc. are overwhelmingly in favor of the public schools.

    As for the blanket statements on here that ALL private schools have these HUGE advantages over public schools across the board--I just don't see where your coming from?? Are there a couple of private schools who have some advantages--Probably (but size is still the most improtant factor); but an all encompassing statement to that effect is just as wrong as the "hire better coaches" or "privates work harder" statements!!
    Excellent and well-presented analysis!!

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