6 Baltimore Officers Suspended Over Death of Prisoner

Page 15 of Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad One (or two) HUGE issue to be considered about Body Cameras An officer pulls up to an emergency call and in his/her rus... 317 comments | 11174 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #211
    capt278's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    It was said by someone on CNN that the prosecutor way over charged everyone, hoping to get one or two of them to crack and take a lesser deal to testify against the others.
    Typical prosecutor tactics.
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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain ref View Post
    I told you how I thought he died.

    Tell me what you think happened?
    Why does it matter how I think he died? The most important piece of information is that he died in the custody of the police.

  3. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    I know exactly what depraved heart murder is. Often called depraved indifference.

    Code Section Maryland Criminal Law Code, Section 2-204: Murder in the Second Degree
    What is Prohibited? Intentionally causing the death of another human being.
    Penalties Murder in the second degree in Maryland is a felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison.

    Maryland abolished the death penalty in 2013. However, even before then, capital punishment was only possible for first-degree murder.


    Copied from the link I provided. As you see, it states intentionally causing the death of another human being.

    It says what it says.
    Let me preface this by pointing out that the study of law is not my forte.

    With that, from what I have read there are different types/categories/degree of 2nd degree murder and "depraved-heart" does not require that the person had the intent to kill. Key is "reckless and wanton unconcern" as to whether someone is hurt/killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    Why does it matter how I think he died? The most important piece of information is that he died in the custody of the police.
    Alright, you asked me how I thought he died and I told you, I was only curious to what you thought. But listen if you want to be that way and be a big bad smart Alec and say why does it matter what you think to me, then that just shows the kind Of character you have. And I would have thought more from you even though we hardly ever agree.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post

    That's not a question that can be answered without specific instances.
    Ferguson, New York, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    I know exactly what depraved heart murder is. Often called depraved indifference.

    Code Section Maryland Criminal Law Code, Section 2-204: Murder in the Second Degree
    What is Prohibited? Intentionally causing the death of another human being.
    Penalties Murder in the second degree in Maryland is a felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison.

    Maryland abolished the death penalty in 2013. However, even before then, capital punishment was only possible for first-degree murder.


    Copied from the link I provided. As you see, it states intentionally causing the death of another human being.

    It says what it says.
    Read the code that you quoted yourself. Better yet, paste the link.

    I see Maryland §2-204 saying that second degree murder is all murder that isn't first degree murder. That's it.

    I've read a lot of Code, and have never seen any that says "What is prohibited?". I don't think you know what depraved heart murder is by the way you are talking about it because by it's own definition there isn't a specific intent to kill (that would make it first degree murder).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Let me preface this by pointing out that the study of law is not my forte.

    With that, from what I have read there are different types/categories/degree of 2nd degree murder and "depraved-heart" does not require that the person had the intent to kill. Key is "reckless and wanton unconcern" as to whether someone is hurt/killed.

    This.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain ref View Post
    Alright, you asked me how I thought he died and I told you, I was only curious to what you thought. But listen if you want to be that way and be a big bad smart Alec and say why does it matter what you think to me, then that just shows the kind Of character you have. And I would have thought more from you even though we hardly ever agree.
    I mean I could guess and speculate all day on how he may have died. That won't get us anywhere.

    I think that it was probably a combination of negligence and excessive force by the officers that lead to his death.

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    §2–204.
    (a) A murder that is not in the first degree under § 2-201 of this subtitle is in the second degree.
    (b) A person who commits a murder in the second degree is guilty of a felony and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 30 years.

    GAM-Article - Criminal Law, Section 2-204


    I don't see the word 'intent' anywhere in there.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Ferguson, New York, etc...
    With Ferguson, I was admittedly drawn in (initially) by the whole hands up thing. Learned my lesson on that one. Once more facts were presented, the only issue I had with the whole thing was how many times Mike Brown was shot. I think the officer was justified in his actions, but still think the number of shots may have been excessive.

    If you are talking about the stairwell incident in NY, I didn't follow that one too closely, so I can't make an "educated" statement on whether or not they should have been charged. Although without much thought, I would say they should have been.

    Overall, I'd like to think that I trust prosecutors everywhere to take the evidence that is available to them and make the "right" decisions in these cases. I'd be lying if I said I 100% trust all of them, but with some of the things going on today, it's hard for me to. Any time a case like this brings charges against offenders, I am going to be supportive of it, because we need to get a grasp on this issue (I know you don't think it's as big of an issue as I do). When charges aren't brought about, I may not agree with it, but again, I'm going to have to trust the people in those positions to make the right decisions. That will be easier said than done sometimes.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post

    With Ferguson, I was admittedly drawn in (initially) by the whole hands up thing. Learned my lesson on that one. Once more facts were presented, the only issue I had with the whole thing was how many times Mike Brown was shot. I think the officer was justified in his actions, but still think the number of shots may have been excessive.

    If you are talking about the stairwell incident in NY, I didn't follow that one too closely, so I can't make an "educated" statement on whether or not they should have been charged. Although without much thought, I would say they should have been.

    Overall, I'd like to think that I trust prosecutors everywhere to take the evidence that is available to them and make the "right" decisions in these cases. I'd be lying if I said I 100% trust all of them, but with some of the things going on today, it's hard for me to. Any time a case like this brings charges against offenders, I am going to be supportive of it, because we need to get a grasp on this issue (I know you don't think it's as big of an issue as I do). When charges aren't brought about, I may not agree with it, but again, I'm going to have to trust the people in those positions to make the right decisions. That will be easier said than done sometimes.
    The numbers (stats, facts...whatever you want to call it) show it's not as much of an issue as the media wants you to believe. It's extremely rare for an innocent unarmed person to die at the hands of police. You are much more likely to be murdered by someone who isn't a police officer, and even more likely to die due to being struck by lightning or attacked by a dog.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Let me preface this by pointing out that the study of law is not my forte.

    With that, from what I have read there are different types/categories/degree of 2nd degree murder and "depraved-heart" does not require that the person had the intent to kill. Key is "reckless and wanton unconcern" as to whether someone is hurt/killed.
    I understand that Clyde. As I have posted however, in Maryland to sustain a murder charge, even second degree, the code states there has to be intent.

    Practice of law is not my forte either. I can read, however.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    Read the code that you quoted yourself. Better yet, paste the link.

    I see Maryland §2-204 saying that second degree murder is all murder that isn't first degree murder. That's it.

    I've read a lot of Code, and have never seen any that says "What is prohibited?". I don't think you know what depraved heart murder is by the way you are talking about it because by it's own definition there isn't a specific intent to kill (that would make it first degree murder).
    I quote from the link that provides the code. Argue with the link. It says what it says.

    I do know what it means. I posted what it means. Depraved heart, depraved indifference, call it what you will.

    All states are different in their requirements. You do realize there is only one charge of murder in Kentucky, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    I understand that Clyde. As I have posted however, in Maryland to sustain a murder charge, even second degree, the code states there has to be intent. Practice of law is not my forte either. I can read, however.
    I haven't read that "depraved" requires intent.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    I haven't read that "depraved" requires intent.
    I haven't read depraved heart murder in the Maryland Statures either. It is not listed as a charging offense.

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