6 Baltimore Officers Suspended Over Death of Prisoner

Page 14 of Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad One (or two) HUGE issue to be considered about Body Cameras An officer pulls up to an emergency call and in his/her rus... 317 comments | 11174 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    First, I don't have any more facts than the next guy (obviously).

    I googled the definition of Second Degree Murder and this is what I found: "2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life."

    Based on what we know so far, I think it's plausible that this charge is appropriate. Obviously the prosecutor thinks they have enough to pursue this charge. I don't know the details of the incident, but this man was alive when he was taken into police custody, they were AT LEAST negligent in handling him, ignored several procedural measures in terms of when he was restrained in the vehicle, and he died because of it. The officers involved are responsible for his death. To what degree will be determined in the investigations and potential trials.
    I told you how I thought he died.

    Tell me what you think happened?
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  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
    First, I don't have any more facts than the next guy (obviously).

    I googled the definition of Second Degree Murder and this is what I found: "2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life."

    Based on what we know so far, I think it's plausible that this charge is appropriate. Obviously the prosecutor thinks they have enough to pursue this charge. I don't know the details of the incident, but this man was alive when he was taken into police custody, they were AT LEAST negligent in handling him, ignored several procedural measures in terms of when he was restrained in the vehicle, and he died because of it. The officers involved are responsible for his death. To what degree will be determined in the investigations and potential trials.
    In many states, for murder, the prosecutor will have to prove intent. That could be difficult.

  3. #198
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    Here is a link stating a 2nd degree murder charge in Maryland requires intent.

    Maryland Second-Degree Murder

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post

    Not sure. Need more info. Something went wrong for sure though.
    Need more info? When some of us say that we're accused of blindly supporting police and refusing to admit that they can ever do wrong...

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post

    A man in the custody of the police died. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp. Obviously they believe they have a reason to pursue a murder charge. If they don't, that individual won't be charged.

    You've yet to answer how you believe he died if you don't think it was the fault of the officers involved.
    Do you support the prosecutor this much when they decline to bring charges?

  6. #201

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    Or the driver hit brakes real quick and speed up and hit brakes to throw him around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    Here is a link stating a 2nd degree murder charge in Maryland requires intent.

    Maryland Second-Degree Murder
    2nd Degree Depraved Heart Murder doesn't require intent. By it's own definition, depraved heart murder kind of rules out intent. All I saw was a statute saying that any murder that wasn't first degree murder was second degree.

  8. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    That's why I said based on the evidence we have.
    Based on the evidence there, it doesn't look good for the officers. Even if the guy was repeatedly hitting his head over and over, they'd failed to restrain him and didn't stop him when he was a danger to himself. That might not be murder, but there's a charge I'm sure.

    The biggest question for me is how he actually died. If we know that, then it becomes much clearer.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    2nd Degree Depraved Heart Murder doesn't require intent. By it's own definition, depraved heart murder kind of rules out intent. All I saw was a statute saying that any murder that wasn't first degree murder was second degree.
    I searched the Maryland statutes and they say nothing about depraved heart murder. You are welcome to read the link I provided.

    I think from what little we know, they may have a solid manslaughter case. It is fairly routine for a prosecutor to over charge and have the lesser included offenses to fall back on.

  10. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    I searched the Maryland statutes and they say nothing about depraved heart murder. You are welcome to read the link I provided.

    I think from what little we know, they may have a solid manslaughter case. It is fairly routine for a prosecutor to over charge and have the lesser included offenses to fall back on.
    I've read the code. Any murder that isn't first degree murder is second degree. Depraved heart murder is a type of second degree murder. It's not specifically listed as 'depraved heart', but it's still second degree. You don't have to have intent for it. If there were intent, then it'd be first degree.

    What is 'depraved-heart' murder?

  11. #206
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    It was said by someone on CNN that the prosecutor way over charged everyone, hoping to get one or two of them to crack and take a lesser deal to testify against the others.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    Based on the evidence there, it doesn't look good for the officers. Even if the guy was repeatedly hitting his head over and over, they'd failed to restrain him and didn't stop him when he was a danger to himself. That might not be murder, but there's a charge I'm sure.

    The biggest question for me is how he actually died. If we know that, then it becomes much clearer.
    I didn't ask if you think there is something they can be charged with, I asked if you think the evidence as we know it supports a murder charge.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Do you support the prosecutor this much when they decline to bring charges?
    That's not a question that can be answered without specific instances.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by JokersWild24 View Post
    I've read the code. Any murder that isn't first degree murder is second degree. Depraved heart murder is a type of second degree murder. It's not specifically listed as 'depraved heart', but it's still second degree. You don't have to have intent for it. If there were intent, then it'd be first degree.

    What is 'depraved-heart' murder?
    I know exactly what depraved heart murder is. Often called depraved indifference.

    Code Section Maryland Criminal Law Code, Section 2-204: Murder in the Second Degree
    What is Prohibited? Intentionally causing the death of another human being.
    Penalties Murder in the second degree in Maryland is a felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison.

    Maryland abolished the death penalty in 2013. However, even before then, capital punishment was only possible for first-degree murder.


    Copied from the link I provided. As you see, it states intentionally causing the death of another human being.

    It says what it says.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    I didn't ask if you think there is something they can be charged with, I asked if you think the evidence as we know it supports a murder charge.
    I don't. Manslaughter, yes.

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