5 of the 8 State Finalist are Private. Does Propostion 20 hold water?

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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    Do those students pay tuition to attend Russell? Or does Russell have some sort of open-enrollment agreement with those school districts?

    If either is the case, I don't see that there is a problem.
    No tuition. Open enrollment agreement with other schools just like every other public or independent school in the 16th region. I find it hard to believe that someone could post this when it is common knowledge where these kids live.

    I don't have a problem with it either but given this fact how does a private school like Rose Hill have and advantage? I follow and know far more about the basketball rosters than football. I can tell you that every public school in the 64th district has kids from out of their district. Boyd Co., Ashland, and Fairview all have kids that live out of their district boundries that are prominent basketball players.

    Let me describe what is unfair in our neck of the woods. Boyd Co. has made a habit of taking kids from the Ramey Home, which is a home for "troubled" kids and placing the athletically gifted ones in a foster home. The same foster home has housed a 6'8" center and now he is housing a kid from Scott County who in several people's opinion is the best player in the 16th region all in the past 3 years. The none athletically gifted kids at the Ramey Home attend school at the Ramey Home the athletes attend school at Boyd Co.

    So when I hear all the crying about private schools having an unfair advantage it falls on a deaf ear.
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4chs
    There are many county school systems that have athletes that do not live within their boundaries. I would guess that more than half of the public school systems in the state have at least one athlete playing at their school who does not live within the boundaries of the school they attend.
    No question. The public schools where I live are no more bound by a district than a private school. So if a public school can take kids from anywhere and not charge tuition then how is a private school different?

  3. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyp
    Let me describe what is unfair in our neck of the woods. Boyd Co. has made a habit of taking kids from the Ramey Home, which is a home for "troubled" kids and placing the athletically gifted ones in a foster home. The same foster home has housed a 6'8" center and now he is housing a kid from Scott County who in several people's opinion is the best player in the 16th region all in the past 3 years. The none athletically gifted kids at the Ramey Home attend school at the Ramey Home the athletes attend school at Boyd Co.
    We have a similar situation in western Kentucky with a facility called the Mayfield Treatment Center. There has been at least one very good athlete (a receiver and point guard in the 1990s) there that attended Calloway County ... the reason being that the Calloway system provided teachers to the facility. I assume the reason the athlete attended school at Calloway is that he was cleared to leave the grounds and so he could participate in athletics.

    I assume the same holds true for Boyd County and the Ramey Home. I remember when Frank Lee took that same route to Boyd ... as long as he was making his grades and meeting eligibility requirements, he had the right to participate in athletics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyp
    No question. The public schools where I live are no more bound by a district than a private school. So if a public school can take kids from anywhere and not charge tuition then how is a private school different?
    I think there are some legitimate questions about private schools' "advantages" ... but I don't think they're necessarily in the area of where their students live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    I assume the same holds true for Boyd County and the Ramey Home. I remember when Frank Lee took that same route to Boyd ... as long as he was making his grades and meeting eligibility requirements, he had the right to participate in athletics.
    They are hand picking athletes from the Ramey home. That's the bottom line. When I read a post that complains about needs based tuition assistance then I just shake my head.

    It isn't private schools that are bending the rules, it's also public schools like Boyd Co. You can seperate private from public but it still won't level the playing field. In the 16th region the only school that is at a disadvantage is Rose Hill. There is nothing that Rose Hill can do that the public schools can't. The difference is that the public schools provide transportation and are fund by tax dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    I think there are some legitimate questions about private schools' "advantages" ... but I don't think they're necessarily in the area of where their students live.
    What are those advantages? I ask this question sincerely. I honestly don't know what advantages there are when the public schools can accept anyone and not charge tuition for out of district students.

    Anyone who wants to answer please feel free to do so.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRIDMANIAC
    Exellent point GT!They are great examples of winning programs! The nearest private school is far enough away they don't lose a lot of kids and the entire community are rabid football fans who support them well.If they are in fact closed enrollment they are definitley the benchmark!However they are the exception not the rule.My sons school is close to Lexington and some of the best ATHLETES go to LexCath,some of the best STUDENTS go to Sayre.
    So, good athletes can't be good students, and vice versa. That's an insult to the STUDENT-ATHLETES at each of these two schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDanza
    Yeah the other day I overheard T & X coaches saying they needed to get more trophy cases for all those state basketball trophies they have won
    T and X haven't really cared about roundball in the past!! They are and remain big time football schools. When they start to care about basketball titles, I'm sure they will contend for the title. Just look at Lex Cath, which started with a basketball focus and now has a football powerhouse in just a short time (all while climbing through the 1A, 2A, and now 3A ranks like a shooting star).

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    I think that the "current system" in Kentucky is unfair to the school systems, but the "current system" does not necessarily mean private v. public attendance policies. Everything is dependent on the area in which you live. First, the talented athletes (some exceptions) usuaually want to attend the best schools for their particular sport and this causes the schools with tradition rich programs (usually private or independent) to keep doing well (whether public or private). Second, other factors such as safety in large city schools, educational quality and so forth can play a role in a parent's decision on where to send their child. Some schools in large cities that are known as "rough and roudy" aren't going to be as appealing as a "Catholic or Christian school". This is why IMO that in the larger cities, privates seem to do better than in smaller communites. Third, in the smaller cities, independents usually seem to do better because of the tradition rich programs that they have. In smaller cities, the privates don't really have anything to offer. Fourth, the recruiting that occurs by ALL schools is a major problem. This is where the unfair part of the "current system" lies. The only way to level the playing field, is to require all students to attend the school in the district in which they live or otherwise pay a steep tuition charge. This would stop a lot of the unfairness overall. But this is not going to happen and so there is no need to single out the private schools across the board. The only real advantage for privates seem to be in large cities and in football only. Otherwise it is more of a public v. independent argument?

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    4A setup

    The change was made a couple of decades ago, but I'm not totally sure it was necessarily for the reasons you and others often describe here.

    The travel disparity was abominable. In 1980, when Paducah Tilghman won the "state at-large" bracket in 4A, they had to win at Shelby County and Henry Clay before going to Louisville to face Trinity at old Cardinal Stadium. The Shamrocks, and every other Louisville champion at that time, never left Jefferson County on their road to the state title game while teams out in the state were making some long road trips.

    That was the real unfair issue in that era, and (if memory serves) it seems to me that it had as much to do with the change as anything else.

    I think the system now is entirely fair to everyone involved ... well, aside from Trinity and St. Xavier's huge numbers advantage.
    It has been years (as in decades as you point out) but I do remember a central argument being that Jefferson was 'guaranteed' a spot in the finals. But the point on travel is very valid. Even with the current setup this is another area where the large metro (Louisville, Lexington) schools have an 'advantage' since they are centerally located in the state. 4-5 hour drives for playoffs are a challenge for any team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexcard
    It has been years (as in decades as you point out) but I do remember a central argument being that Jefferson was 'guaranteed' a spot in the finals

    I guess I am lost on this one....Jefferson County school is "guaranteed" a spot in the playoffs

    It seems to me....no matter where you put ANY team...in ANY bracket...if they continue to win...THEN they are "guaranteed"
    a spot in the final game.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissinger
    Please don't tell us if you are from a public or private school, as someone will definitely make a mathematical statement about your education. 46 divided by 282 is 16.3% (not less than 10%), and there are those who have statistical experience that would say 22% compared to 16.3% is not statistically abnormal. Please use correct facts when you support emotional conclusions.
    Yeah, but those numbers are wrong anyway as they don't include many of the sports dominated by private schools (like volleyball or boys swimming.) But I didn't see you telling anyone to bring the correct facts there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    You want to explain that one?

    You always bring up numbers even in your good posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyTmcNcc
    So your solution would be "Let them eat cake"
    No actually i prefer Little Debbie's.

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