5 of the 8 State Finalist are Private. Does Propostion 20 hold water?

Page 7 of Originally Posted by All Play No Work Are Ohio and Indiana in the rest of the states in America? Ok, let me clarify, MOST of the states in this country... 200 comments | 9222 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by gametime
    KY players have been getting better in the system in place. Tennessee players have not been the same since the split. Do you really need it spelled out for you...
    Not arguing with you but I have heard this point made several times and I have a question for my understanding. Are not all TN players eligible for this game, no matter what school they go to?

    This past summer the KY basketball team had a player that was not even eligible to play basketball his senior year but was on the All-Star team.

    I am not sure why all players would not be eligible for the team no matter what school they attend.

    Or are you saying the quality of play has gotten so bad in Tennessee that they are not able to produce the quality of kids that they did in the past.
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  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch
    That's what it is. Discipline is why St. Xavier and Trinity have over 100 players on their teams while other schools do not. That may be the most ridiculous public/private argument I've read.
    I had mentioned that there were FIVE Catholic schools throughout the championships. I think there is something to say about that. Could it be the disciplined structures of the schools? (Uniforms, honor codes, RELIGION taught in the classess) That's all, it was more of a what do you think in general statement. Not just singling out the two large schools. I wasn't making an argument.

    But, if I was arguing, I might say...

    Believe me, that's not my argument "Fletch" mine is simply to quit whining. You've got two large all-boys schools in the state who are football powerhouses...two. Get over it, get better...life ain't fair. Actually, what I think is odd is how many schools "cut corners", "bend the rules", and some blatantly cheat, (recruit, scrimmage too many times, MANY play kids who live in other states, etc.), then have enough nerve to get up in an assembly and vote to kick about 7 or 8 schools out of the KHSAA, or go on TV and act like they are trying to "even the playing field" when they KNOW half of their buddies cheat without a conscious. Everyone knows it and I think they should be ashamed or even worse, exposed. Might break a few hearts out there. Why do you think the KHSAA isn't going to go through with throwing them out? There are many Public schools out there that are very lucky that the KHSAA hasn't dropped the hammer on them. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house!



    Believe me there "Fletch" you don't want this argument...Now, enlighten the world with your most "un-riduculous" argument.

    Now if I was arguing, I would say something like this...but I'm not arguing.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02Ram54
    I don't see volleyball or boys swimming on there.

    (Standard disclaimer: I am not in favor of a split. I'm just interested in full intellectual honesty and disclosure.)
    Or cross country, girls golf or track and field.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by gametime
    KY players have been getting better in the system in place. Tennessee players have not been the same since the split. Do you really need it spelled out for you...
    I believe your reasoning is flawed. A better explanation is that KY football began getting better when UK and UL started playing each other. The UK-UL rivalry has generated more excitement in the state, which in turn created incentive for KY football players to raise the level of their game.

    If you truly believe there is a correlation between the split in TN Public-Private and KY's recent success in beating them, then, yes spell it out for me, or better yet, do the math with a regression analysis and show me the numbers. Otherwise, I think you are pulling something out of your . . . hat.

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    My only question is this: How can two schools in the same city be in the state championship?

    The Answer: Because the KHSAA is scared to death of them....Maybe someday somebody with some guts will guide the KHSAA and redistrict things the way they should be. I mean it can't be geography.....it has to be that someone writes some big checks to someone and thus one is east and one is west....get real...is that a level playing field...put them both where they should be....in the same district.
    I know this has been covered.

    The old set up was the 4A Jefferson County 'champion' played the 4A state 'champion' in the finals. But some out in the state claimed this was unfair since it guarenteed a Jefferson County school a spot in the finals. And that was unfair (sound familiar??) and favored the Jefferson County schools over the statewide schools according the those backing the change.

    So the setup was changed so that you could have 2 non-Jefferson County schools in the finals. Since 1995 there has been only 1 4A final with 2 non-Jefferson County schools - 1996. But there have been numerous times since 1995 that the finalist are 2 Jefferson County schools. In fact, MOST of the finals are all Jefferson County - involving St. X, Trinity and Male.

    IMHO the good ol' boys out in the state screwed up when they changed the 4A format and now they want to screw it up even worse.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexcard
    I know this has been covered.

    The old set up was the 4A Jefferson County 'champion' played the 4A state 'champion' in the finals. But some out in the state claimed this was unfair since it guarenteed a Jefferson County school a spot in the finals. And that was unfair (sound familiar??) and favored the Jefferson County schools over the statewide schools according the those backing the change.

    So the setup was changed so that you could have 2 non-Jefferson County schools in the finals. Since 1995 there has been only 1 4A final with 2 non-Jefferson County schools - 1996. But there have been numerous times since 1995 that the finalist are 2 Jefferson County schools. In fact, MOST of the finals are all Jefferson County - involving St. X, Trinity and Male.

    IMHO the good ol' boys out in the state screwed up when they changed the 4A format and now they want to screw it up even worse.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch
    That's 22% of the state championships from a group that makes up less than 10% of the KHSAA membership.
    Please don't tell us if you are from a public or private school, as someone will definitely make a mathematical statement about your education. 46 divided by 282 is 16.3% (not less than 10%), and there are those who have statistical experience that would say 22% compared to 16.3% is not statistically abnormal. Please use correct facts when you support emotional conclusions.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexcard
    I know this has been covered.

    The old set up was the 4A Jefferson County 'champion' played the 4A state 'champion' in the finals. But some out in the state claimed this was unfair since it guarenteed a Jefferson County school a spot in the finals. And that was unfair (sound familiar??) and favored the Jefferson County schools over the statewide schools according the those backing the change.

    So the setup was changed so that you could have 2 non-Jefferson County schools in the finals. Since 1995 there has been only 1 4A final with 2 non-Jefferson County schools - 1996. But there have been numerous times since 1995 that the finalist are 2 Jefferson County schools. In fact, MOST of the finals are all Jefferson County - involving St. X, Trinity and Male.

    IMHO the good ol' boys out in the state screwed up when they changed the 4A format and now they want to screw it up even worse.
    The change was made a couple of decades ago, but I'm not totally sure it was necessarily for the reasons you and others often describe here.

    The travel disparity was abominable. In 1980, when Paducah Tilghman won the "state at-large" bracket in 4A, they had to win at Shelby County and Henry Clay before going to Louisville to face Trinity at old Cardinal Stadium. The Shamrocks, and every other Louisville champion at that time, never left Jefferson County on their road to the state title game while teams out in the state were making some long road trips.

    That was the real unfair issue in that era, and (if memory serves) it seems to me that it had as much to do with the change as anything else.

    I think the system now is entirely fair to everyone involved ... well, aside from Trinity and St. Xavier's huge numbers advantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider
    I think the system now is entirely fair to everyone involved ... well, aside from Trinity and St. Xavier's huge numbers advantage.

    Almost got through the whole, but you just couldn't....

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockPride
    Almost got through the whole, but you just couldn't....
    You want to explain that one?

  11. #101
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    MAn I dont know this is a issue that i think needs to split. I feel there are to sides. Personally i want it to split well because we got beat by Newport friday night which dressed 60 kids and we only had about 40. However i feel that is not the reason why we lost. But anyways if you truly want to beat the best team from your class and say you are truly the number 1 team in the class ytou have to play the private school you cant say you are the number 1 public school in the state. I mean its like the old saying to be the best you have to beat the best. But 5 out of the 8 teams playing for the state title is pretty ridiculous and it is hard to believe who would win 4a if there was a split that thing has been won byu private schools forever. So in someways i am for it and in other ways im not. But if i had to vote i would vote for the split

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoDawg
    I had mentioned that there were FIVE Catholic schools throughout the championships. I think there is something to say about that. Could it be the disciplined structures of the schools? (Uniforms, honor codes, RELIGION taught in the classess) That's all, it was more of a what do you think in general statement. Not just singling out the two large schools. I wasn't making an argument.

    But, if I was arguing, I might say...

    Believe me, that's not my argument "Fletch" mine is simply to quit whining. You've got two large all-boys schools in the state who are football powerhouses...two. Get over it, get better...life ain't fair. Actually, what I think is odd is how many schools "cut corners", "bend the rules", and some blatantly cheat, (recruit, scrimmage too many times, MANY play kids who live in other states, etc.), then have enough nerve to get up in an assembly and vote to kick about 7 or 8 schools out of the KHSAA, or go on TV and act like they are trying to "even the playing field" when they KNOW half of their buddies cheat without a conscious. Everyone knows it and I think they should be ashamed or even worse, exposed. Might break a few hearts out there. Why do you think the KHSAA isn't going to go through with throwing them out? There are many Public schools out there that are very lucky that the KHSAA hasn't dropped the hammer on them. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house!



    Believe me there "Fletch" you don't want this argument...Now, enlighten the world with your most "un-riduculous" argument.

    Now if I was arguing, I would say something like this...but I'm not arguing.
    What he said.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by goherd96
    Thank you for clarifying. I work in an independent system and the only difference here is we have a separate school board from the county system and one high school. I'm not sure how independent schools got lumped in with the privates...BIGGGGGGGG difference. Our school still has a defined boundary that identifies those who make up our student population.
    Well I read this about 20 miniutes ago and just picked myself back up off the floor. I believe you work in the Russell school system, I base this assumption on your previous post. If so, how can you post this garbage? Russell's best two basketball players live in the Ashland and Boyd Co. schools district.

    What boundray are you defined by? The Commonwealth of Kentucky? The United States of America? because it sure isn't the Russell Independent School district.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyp
    Well I read this about 20 miniutes ago and just picked myself back up off the floor. I believe you work in the Russell school system, I base this assumption on your previous post. If so, how can you post this garbage? Russell's best two basketball players live in the Ashland and Boyd Co. schools district.

    What boundray are you defined by? The Commonwealth of Kentucky? The United States of America? because it sure isn't the Russell Independent School district.
    Do those students pay tuition to attend Russell? Or does Russell have some sort of open-enrollment agreement with those school districts?

    If either is the case, I don't see that there is a problem.

    And there is nothing that prevents other school districts from allowing students to cross district lines.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyp
    Well I read this about 20 miniutes ago and just picked myself back up off the floor. I believe you work in the Russell school system, I base this assumption on your previous post. If so, how can you post this garbage? Russell's best two basketball players live in the Ashland and Boyd Co. schools district.

    What boundray are you defined by? The Commonwealth of Kentucky? The United States of America? because it sure isn't the Russell Independent School district.
    There are many county school systems that have athletes that do not live within their boundaries. I would guess that more than half of the public school systems in the state have at least one athlete playing at their school who does not live within the boundaries of the school they attend.

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