5 of the 8 State Finalist are Private. Does Propostion 20 hold water?

Page 2 of Originally Posted by All Play No Work Are Ohio and Indiana in the rest of the states in America? Ok, let me clarify, MOST of the states in this country... 200 comments | 9234 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    My only question is this: How can two schools in the same city be in the state championship?

    The Answer: Because the KHSAA is scared to death of them....Maybe someday somebody with some guts will guide the KHSAA and redistrict things the way they should be. I mean it can't be geography.....it has to be that someone writes some big checks to someone and thus one is east and one is west....get real...is that a level playing field...put them both where they should be....in the same district.
    This is a simple answer, MONEY. The Trinity-St.X rivallry usually brings around 30,000 ppl year in and year out. If they put them in the same region then they cant have all that money from the state title game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSURock
    A similar number in reverse usually exists in the sweet sixteen. How does that happen? Why no talk over the years of public school domination in basketball?
    I can tell you why, to field a state championship basketball team you only need ONE great player and 4 other contributers and you have the possibility of a state title. Look at teams of the past, usually they had one standout player and other contributers around them that get the job done. Each school usually finds it easy to get one solid player and other contributers around them. Any school finds it easier to find 7 solid basketball players and 8 others to fill the bench and struggles to find 30 solid football players and enough others to field a good roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Alumni 76
    I can tell you why, to field a state championship basketball team you only need ONE great player and 4 other contributers and you have the possibility of a state title. Look at teams of the past, usually they had one standout player and other contributers around them that get the job done. Each school usually finds it easy to get one solid player and other contributers around them. Any school finds it easier to find 7 solid basketball players and 8 others to fill the bench and struggles to find 30 solid football players and enough others to field a good roster.


    But we HAVE ALL THOSE BOYS to chose from and we still can't win a state b-ball championship!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    My only question is this: How can two schools in the same city be in the state championship?

    The Answer: Because the KHSAA is scared to death of them....Maybe someday somebody with some guts will guide the KHSAA and redistrict things the way they should be. I mean it can't be geography.....it has to be that someone writes some big checks to someone and thus one is east and one is west....get real...is that a level playing field...put them both where they should be....in the same district.
    The answer is simple. THEY HAD IT THAT WAY BEFORE! BUT some of the same crying now said it wasn't fair that a Louisville team was a lock for the finals. Just like that decision, be careful what you ask for...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Alumni 76
    ... And in Western Ky you have the main private school being Owensboro Catholic which the past two years has been in the state title game. Just a statistic that needs looked at.
    Let's just take a look at that ...

    Owensboro Catholic turned their program around just a few years ago after Coach Mike Lawson (who previously was an assistant at Lexington Catholic) moved there as head coach (didn't he make "Coach of the Year" after that?).

    Coach Lawson is now at Marshall County where their record went from 2-8 in 2004 to 9-2 this year.

    I'd like to think that Lawson is a great coach who's building a good track record wherever he goes. Do you suppose that might be it? What were you thinking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    My only question is this: How can two schools in the same city be in the state championship?

    The Answer: Because the KHSAA is scared to death of them....Maybe someday somebody with some guts will guide the KHSAA and redistrict things the way they should be. I mean it can't be geography.....it has to be that someone writes some big checks to someone and thus one is east and one is west....get real...is that a level playing field...put them both where they should be....in the same district.
    Maybe a little look into KHSAA history would be a good idea before you post such uninformed posts. The KHSAA has tried any number of ways to hanicap Jefferson County/Louisville 4A football. The current setup is so that a Louisville team isn't garuanteed a spot in the finals. It could have been HC/WC Friday night for the title.

  7. #22
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    Did anyone complain when Bobby Redman had all those state championship game appearances in a row from 2000-2003? Or how about the runs when Redman was QB? Not one of the catholic supporters complained about that. What they did do is make their teams better. The kids did things to improve themselves on thier own time. The money doesnt make the difference, its the philosophy.

    Public schools...I have one name for you if you dont believe success is possible. Chuck Smith

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    Quote Originally Posted by pancho
    Let's just take a look at that ...

    Owensboro Catholic turned their program around just a few years ago after Coach Mike Lawson (who previously was an assistant at Lexington Catholic) moved there as head coach (didn't he make "Coach of the Year" after that?).

    Coach Lawson is now at Marshall County where their record went from 2-8 in 2004 to 9-2 this year.

    I'd like to think that Lawson is a great coach who's building a good track record wherever he goes. Do you suppose that might be it? What were you thinking?
    Can you explain why all these schools, which are the main private or catholic schools in their area are doing so well? I dont think that we need to take the privates out of competition with the public schools. Just need to make revisions like taking "need based tuition" out. If the kids parents cant afford it, then dont let them go to the private schools period. The publics do not offer "need based tuition" to kids that live outside their boudries and neither should the privates be allowed to either. I went to a public school and am doing very well in my life so the kids that cant afford a private school education i think will be okay. If a kids parents can afford to send their child to a private school and pay all that money out then that is fine just take the "need based tuition" which is just another word for a scholarship out of the private schools and lets see what happens to the playing field.

  9. #24
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    To fully investigate this Prop 20 debacle....you cannot just use football stats....Where are the basketball, baseball finals....stats....Now does the Prop 20 argument hold water? I think not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSURock
    A similar number in reverse usually exists in the sweet sixteen. How does that happen? Why no talk over the years of public school domination in basketball?

    Those catholics school sure can play some football.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Alumni 76
    No i understand that St. X and Trinity are the year in and year out favorites to win the Class 4A state title each year and NCC traditionally plays in a state title game every couple of years, Covington Catholic is usually a state title contender year in and year out and Owensboro Catholic has been in the two state title games the past two years. My question is how many private schools are throughout the state total and of that total 5 made the state finals.

    If you look at this teams Beechwood and Highlands, each one has its up and down years, not from the top to the bottom but regional final champ to 3 games and out. Now as from Boyle County, they were down this year but there isnt a private school to draw their players away nearby only the city school of Danville. What stands out to me is this, go by geographical locations, In northern Ky the main two private schools are Covington Catholic and NCC, one of those two made it and the other lost to another private school in the playoffs. In the Lexington area, you have the main private being Lexington Catholic, which made it this year for the first time in its history i believe. In the Louisville area you have the two main privates being Trinity and St. X which are in the state title game year in and year out. And in Western Ky you have the main private school being Owensboro Catholic which the past two years has been in the state title game. Just a statistic that needs looked at.
    I think your argument holds some water in Lexington and Owensboro; but not in Louisville and NKY. X and Trinity are simply bigger than the rest of AAAA and have built first class programs as well. In NKY, while both NCC and CCH are fine athletic programs, it has little to do with being the only private schools in their area. There are I believe 8 Catholic and one other private high schools in NKY, and many compete very well with NCC and CCH in most sports. Further, while CCH in AAA and NCC in A have very successful football programs, they are not even the best programs in their own area; as that would be Highlands and Beechwood--Both public schools??

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Alumni 76
    Can you explain why all these schools, which are the main private or catholic schools in their area are doing so well? I dont think that we need to take the privates out of competition with the public schools. Just need to make revisions like taking "need based tuition" out. If the kids parents cant afford it, then dont let them go to the private schools period. The publics do not offer "need based tuition" to kids that live outside their boudries and neither should the privates be allowed to either. I went to a public school and am doing very well in my life so the kids that cant afford a private school education i think will be okay. If a kids parents can afford to send their child to a private school and pay all that money out then that is fine just take the "need based tuition" which is just another word for a scholarship out of the private schools and lets see what happens to the playing field.
    Are you OK with non-athletes getting need-based financial assistance to help pay tuition? Just checking.

    Do you honestly believe that Owensboro Catholic's football team went from losing to winning simply because someone started throwing scholarships around and buying up talented prospects?? Where did all this money come from???

    I'm sure you didn't mean to insult anyone but don't you suppose coaching, hard work, and dedication could have been factors in all of this????

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSURock
    A similar number in reverse usually exists in the sweet sixteen. How does that happen? Why no talk over the years of public school domination in basketball?
    You're wasting your time....you'll never hear a legitimate response to that question. Because....it invalidates the whole "it's not fair jargon".

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSURock
    A similar number in reverse usually exists in the sweet sixteen. How does that happen? Why no talk over the years of public school domination in basketball?
    I think that you should expect 3-4 private schools in the sweet sixteen based on the percentage of private schools playing. I have no idea how many usually do make it, anyone have that stat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
    My only question is this: How can two schools in the same city be in the state championship?

    The Answer: Because the KHSAA is scared to death of them....Maybe someday somebody with some guts will guide the KHSAA and redistrict things the way they should be. I mean it can't be geography.....it has to be that someone writes some big checks to someone and thus one is east and one is west....get real...is that a level playing field...put them both where they should be....in the same district.
    Be sure and include the 12 football coaches on the state advisory committee (at that time) in your list of people to write to. They are the ones who wanted a purely geographical alignment seven years ago and put those schools in opposite regions. They drew a North-South line in Jefferson County and divided it into two districts. There were already three districts each of Louisville and three to the West. The Board of Control simply approved their request.

    As someone who spoke to the committee at that time, I can tell you they tried to NOT consider who was whom, who was good, who was successful. What you apparently want is called "gerrymandering" just to get your own desired outcome. And when talk was up before about putting them into the same district, not one school wanted to be in there with them, which is factor that MUST be considered.

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