2 more cops shot and killed

Page 5 of Originally Posted by Djason Unchained Based on what you are saying I could make the same argument that unarmed black people are under attack by the pol... 83 comments | 3589 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #61
    Jumper_Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym View Post
    You know as well as I do that there have been more than a few high profile cases over the past couple of years where the police officer's actions have immediately been backed by the police department in the media without time for a thorough investigation. That creates an aura of mistrust. The public assume, whether rightly or wrongly, that the police will always back their officers no matter what. When a department is transparent about their investigation and gives a reason for their findings it gives a much more favorable impression of the justice system.
    You know as well as I do regardless of the investigation or what it determines many will always say it is biased if the officer is found to have acted justly.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym View Post
    Maybe because 9 police officers have been fired as a result of his death and several could still face charges? Sounds like in that situation the police department did a thorough and unbiased investigation instead of immediately closing ranks.
    So why the immediate rush to protest and riot in Baltimore? Why not let the investigation take it's course? Then if you don't like the outcome torch away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    So why the immediate rush to protest and riot in Baltimore? Why not let the investigation take it's course? Then if you don't like the outcome torch away.
    The protesting is fine regardless of the facts.

    The rioting is inexcusable no matter what the facts say.

    Just my two cents worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    So why the immediate rush to protest and riot in Baltimore? Why not let the investigation take it's course? Then if you don't like the outcome torch away.
    I would think that if people sit back and wait, just letting everything completely run it's course and don't like the outcome, then it's likely too late.

    Also, the pressure that is put on during the investigation might sometimes let officials know that people are watching, and with more eyeballs on things, there's more potential that something corrupt could be exposed if attempted.

    Honestly, I would think that the lack of transparency in similar cases where someone is "internally disciplined" or subject to some other type of vague, ambiguous punishment is one of the primary factors in people acting with such immediacy.

    Not saying it's right, that it's the best system, or anything like that, just that I can see how the debate and protest has evolved as somewhat of a function of that.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    You know as well as I do regardless of the investigation or what it determines many will always say it is biased if the officer is found to have acted justly.
    So just throw the baby out with the bathwater? Sure, some will always have issues. Whoever said you're gonna please everybody?

    You just have to sway reasonable people. And right now a lot of reasonable people have a lot of justifiable doubts about the way "internal investigations" sometimes get handled.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    So just throw the baby out with the bathwater? Sure, some will always have issues. Whoever said you're gonna please everybody?

    You just have to sway reasonable people. And right now a lot of reasonable people have a lot of justifiable doubts about the way "internal investigations" sometimes get handled.
    If you and others are honest you would admit that there are very few that are even questionable by reasonable people. But as I said some, not necessarily you, but some will always think there was something nefarious anytime a police officer is ruled to be justified in their actions taken. Only when they are prosecuted will some, say it was an unbiased investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    If you and others are honest you would admit that there are very few that are even questionable by reasonable people. But as I said some, not necessarily you, but some will always think there was something nefarious anytime a police officer is ruled to be justified in their actions taken. Only when they are prosecuted will some, say it was an unbiased investigation.
    Wouldn't a change in the way that is SOP in handling internal investigations go a long way toward melting that iceberg? Again, if you can win over the reasonable but skeptical types first, they'll win over the crazier ones bit by bit.

    Whatever the case may be, something's gotta be better than what most departments seem to be practicing in the way of PR and community relations. The Thick Blue Wall wasn't built in a day, and neither was the will of its detractors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    Wouldn't a change in the way that is SOP in handling internal investigations go a long way toward melting that iceberg? Again, if you can win over the reasonable but skeptical types first, they'll win over the crazier ones bit by bit.

    Whatever the case may be, something's gotta be better than what most departments seem to be practicing in the way of PR and community relations. The Thick Blue Wall wasn't built in a day, and neither was the will of its detractors.
    Agreed, but what changes need to be made?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    Agreed, but what changes need to be made?
    I would start with abandoning the "it's still under investigation" mantra as a preferred method to keep information from the public. That gets abused far too often, and when used in controversial cases does nothing but sow the seeds of mistrust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post

    I would start with abandoning the "it's still under investigation" mantra as a preferred method to keep information from the public. That gets abused far too often, and when used in controversial cases does nothing but sow the seeds of mistrust.
    You want them to release everything as soon as they get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    You want them to release everything as soon as they get it?
    That's not the case either. All I'm asking for is a middle ground. Right now there's two extremes and nobody wants to budge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    That's not the case either. All I'm asking for is a middle ground. Right now there's two extremes and nobody wants to budge.
    There is no middle ground, nor should there be. People demand up to the minute updates is part of the problem. If an investigation is on going everyone needs to chill the hell out and let it be completed. Because you (not you specifically, but in general) want to be kept up to speed on everything doesn't mean anything needs to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    There is no middle ground, nor should there be. People demand up to the minute updates is part of the problem. If an investigation is on going everyone needs to chill the hell out and let it be completed. Because you (not you specifically, but in general) want to be kept up to speed on everything doesn't mean anything needs to change.
    THIS!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad View Post
    In the Mathew Ajibade case everything so far seems warranted.
    The coroner just ruled that this was a homicide.

    Coroner: Student's death in police custody a homicide - CNN.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider View Post
    There is no middle ground, nor should there be. People demand up to the minute updates is part of the problem. If an investigation is on going everyone needs to chill the hell out and let it be completed. Because you (not you specifically, but in general) want to be kept up to speed on everything doesn't mean anything needs to change.
    Quote Originally Posted by capt278 View Post
    THIS!!!!
    And this is why the mistrust continues. You guys should do some research on some police departments and other law enforcement agencies that actually get it, and are able to get out in front of ugly situations by exercising a sensible media/public relations policy. It's amazing how peaceful those communities often are.

    You guys rush to some extreme defensive position immediately, and it's just silly and bullheaded. There is only the most extreme circumstance where a "minute-by-minute" update is necessary, and that's those where there is significant immediate public risk.

    But in controversial cases or even just those that attract a lot of media attention, a 15-minute press conference daily (and even less as things drag on and attention wanes) goes a long way toward projecting an image of justice and thoroughness, and helps get out in front of stupid misinformation that tends to fester wildly on places like Topix, where lunacy and speculation and conspiracy reigns.

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