"Since 1990, 11 schools have won 49 out of the 60 state titles"...

Page 4 of They've also combined for 17 runner-up finishes. Big 11 have hold on the hardware... 118 comments | 5063 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #46

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    How can you create two different systems and have it be fair to everyone?

    Within each system, there would still be classes. You don't eliminate the inequities by dividing the privates and the publics. All you do is furter exacerbate the inequities among the publics, and make things more difficult for the privates. Now, if the concern is simply that the privates be faced with more obstacles, then the goal will be accomplished. But if the goal is to TRUELY diminish the inequities among schools, this goal will NOT be accomplished. It's impossible, because there will NEVER be 100% support and 100% equal talent level, coaching and facilities among schools.
    You are right, but the competition for regional/district/state titles would be more of apples vs. apples instead of oranges vs. bananas.

    Why would you need classes unless you agree that some schools have advantages that others do not and should not be expected to compete against such schools.
    Advertisement

  2. #47

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Location
    Retired From BGP
    Posts
    6,680

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    I agree in a perfect world. But public schools live in a world where parents sometimes are wonderful parents but are also sometimes 1)don't care if their kids are in school or not, getting an education or not, as long as they are out of their hair; 2)their actions are openly working against the school. That is the reality of the environment of the public school. Kids leaving the meth lab house that their parents are running to come to school and hear an anti-drug message. Parents who allow their children to miss not just 20-30 days but 40-50-70 days of school. Parents who tell the administrators that attitude and grades of their children is his problem not theirs.

    Private and public schools live in two different worlds. Public school teachers would love, LOVE to have the support that most private schools have.
    How is that the definition of a "wonderful parent"? That would not be my definition of someone with those thoughts. I don't think you know how public schools work. We have truancy laws and they are fairly strict about them at my childs school. Parents are taken to court and or jail over their kids truancy issues where I live. Also, where do you think all the problem public school kids go to when they are expelled from a public school? The problems and solutions are not as black and white as most people would like to think. Stereotyping an entire school system with a socio economic problem that crosses into both public and privates is wrong IMO. Some indiviual parents are inept as you have described, but the vast majority I know are not. Where did all these terrible parents learn to be such, from their own mothers and fathers? If not, then where? I know in my case my parents taught me, I have carried that on to my kids, who in turn I have no doubt will do the same. If you look at the opposite side of the coin, I'm sure that the people you describe are just carrying on their own family tradition so to speak.

  3. #48
    stickymitts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 04
    Location
    "Win for Quinn"
    Posts
    19,321

    Quote Originally Posted by shooter
    Hard work alone isn't enough. I don't doubt that Highlands works harder than most programs but there are other ingredients. Good coaching and talent immediately come to mind.
    Not disputing that at all. Just making myself clear to LBBC on my reason for responding.

  4. #49

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman32
    How is that the definition of a "wonderful parent"? That would not be my definition of someone with those thoughts. I don't think you know how public schools work. We have truancy laws and they are fairly strict about them at my childs school. Parents are taken to court and or jail over their kids truancy issues where I live. Also, where do you think all the problem public school kids go to when they are expelled from a public school? The problems and solutions are not as black and white as most people would like to think. Stereotyping an entire school system with a socio economic problem that crosses into both public and privates is wrong IMO. Some indiviual parents are inept as you have described, but the vast majority I know are not. Where did all these terrible parents learn to be such, from their own mothers and fathers? If not, then where? I know in my case my parents taught me, I have carried that on to my kids, who in turn I have no doubt will do the same. If you look at the opposite side of the coin, I'm sure that the people you describe are just carrying on their own family tradition so to speak.
    I meant sometimes we have very wonderful parents and sometimes we have parents on the other end of the spectrum. I simply did not want to discount or paint the picture that all public school parents are like my examples. Some public school parents are truly wonderful, supportive parents.

    And yes they are carrying on the family tradition on both ends. I have taught children of my classmates. And they act just like their parents did when I attended school with them.

  5. #50

    Join Date
    Jun 04
    Posts
    423

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    As far as private schools and basketball, some on here already know my answer. Sacred Heart and Lex Catholic have won the last 5 titles.

    And it would not be changing the whole universe of HS sports in KY. Simply creating a 5th class. And as far as your schools listed, mostly small communities where community pride is easier to develop and less resources are needed. Boyle County is an interesting anamoly. 1 rural county out of about 100. Would not classify that percentage as a normal example.
    Agree completely, the success Boyle Co has earned is not normal; it's rather exceptional. But they've showed that it IS possible.

  6. #51

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Location
    Retired From BGP
    Posts
    6,680

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    I meant sometimes we have very wonderful parents and sometimes we have parents on the other end of the spectrum. I simply did not want to discount or paint the picture that all public school parents are like my examples. Some public school parents are truly wonderful, supportive parents.

    And yes they are carrying on the family tradition on both ends. I have taught children of my classmates. And they act just like their parents did when I attended school with them.
    I'm having a hard time hearing you with your previous post echoing in my head.

  7. #52

    Join Date
    Feb 01
    Posts
    2,891

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    As far as private schools and basketball, some on here already know my answer. Sacred Heart and Lex Catholic have won the last 5 titles.

    And it would not be changing the whole universe of HS sports in KY. Simply creating a 5th class. And as far as your schools listed, mostly small communities where community pride is easier to develop and less resources are needed. Boyle County is an interesting anamoly. 1 rural county out of about 100. Would not classify that percentage as a normal example.

    A fifth class for whom?

    Even LexCath & Sac Heart haven't been dominating for decades, have they???? What has changed? I could be wrong, but didn't they start getting better and then the talent followed???

    The schools I mentioned are still public and that is what the current proposal is addressing.

    Your whole argument was public vs. private-are you creating another group to be excluded-the small schools with community pride????

    Boyle got the right coach and got a lot of support. It is not that hard. I know many public schools, who I will not mention, that have talent coming out of their ears, but they don't do it the right way.

    The bottom line is- programs can be improved with hard work.

    Colerain is another example; where were they before Kerry Combs? The support and the talent followed him.

    The planets don't have to align to become a major player.

  8. #53

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman32
    How is that the definition of a "wonderful parent"? That would not be my definition of someone with those thoughts. I don't think you know how public schools work. We have truancy laws and they are fairly strict about them at my childs school. Parents are taken to court and or jail over their kids truancy issues where I live. Also, where do you think all the problem public school kids go to when they are expelled from a public school? The problems and solutions are not as black and white as most people would like to think. Stereotyping an entire school system with a socio economic problem that crosses into both public and privates is wrong IMO. Some indiviual parents are inept as you have described, but the vast majority I know are not. Where did all these terrible parents learn to be such, from their own mothers and fathers? If not, then where? I know in my case my parents taught me, I have carried that on to my kids, who in turn I have no doubt will do the same. If you look at the opposite side of the coin, I'm sure that the people you describe are just carrying on their own family tradition so to speak.
    2 things on this. First, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to expel a student from a public school. Only 2 from our HS last year and both attacked a teacher. Also, with resource students it is even more limited. You can only suspend for 10 days. (Sidenote: are private schools limited by suspending and the handling of resource students as public schools are? I truly do not know.)

    Second, in our county front of the pool hall or the street corner. Not to a private school.

  9. #54

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    A fifth class for whom?

    Even LexCath & Sac Heart haven't been dominating for decades, have they???? What has changed? I could be wrong, but didn't they start getting better and then the talent followed???

    The schools I mentioned are still public and that is what the current proposal is addressing.

    Your whole argument was public vs. private-are you creating another group to be excluded-the small schools with community pride????

    Boyle got the right coach and got a lot of support. It is not that hard. I know many public schools, who I will not mention, that have talent coming out of their ears, but they don't do it the right way.

    The bottom line is- programs can be improved with hard work.


    Colerain is another example; where were they before Kerry Combs? The support and the talent followed him.

    The planets don't have to align to become a major player.
    The point of the proposal was the growing trend in HS athletics and what has occurred over the past 10 years.

    There is that hard work thing. THe privates always indicated they just work harder. If the REds work harder each year while the rules of salary in MLB stays the same, can we expect them to compete year in and year out?

  10. #55

    Join Date
    Feb 01
    Posts
    2,891

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    The point of the proposal was the growing trend in HS athletics and what has occurred over the past 10 years.

    There is that hard work thing. THe privates always indicated they just work harder. If the REds work harder each year while the rules of salary in MLB stays the same, can we expect them to compete year in and year out?
    If the Reds made better decisions, absolutely!!

    The Twins, A's, and Marlins have all had recent playoff success as small market teams with lower payrolls.

    Their owners made wise decisions, just like the principal, AD's, and head coaches need to do in the public schools that are using private schools as an excuse.

    I never said the privates worked harder; I said the publics that use privates as an excuse need to work hard-also they need to work smarter, which sometimes supercedes working harder.

  11. #56

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    If the Reds made better decisions, absolutely!!

    The Twins, A's, and Marlins have all had recent playoff success as small market teams with lower payrolls.

    Their owners made wise decisions, just like the principal, AD's, and head coaches need to do in the public schools that are using private schools as an excuse.

    I never said the privates worked harder; I said the publics that use privates as an excuse need to work hard-also they need to work smarter, which sometimes supercedes working harder.
    Individual teams that won SEPARATE divisions than the Yankees and Red Sox to get into the playoffs. My point also was have any of those individual teams succeeded in a YEAR IN and YEAR OUT fashion as the Yankees/Red Sox have. NO. Best they have done is a good 1-2-3 year run.

    So a system that allows a handful of programs to have success every year while looking for other programs to look for that one magical year or two, is a good system?

  12. #57

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Location
    Retired From BGP
    Posts
    6,680

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    2 things on this. First, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to expel a student from a public school. Only 2 from our HS last year and both attacked a teacher. Also, with resource students it is even more limited. You can only suspend for 10 days. (Sidenote: are private schools limited by suspending and the handling of resource students as public schools are? I truly do not know.)

    Second, in our county front of the pool hall or the street corner. Not to a private school.
    That is not the case where I live. Secondly, you probably need to clean up your own area and address the issue instead of blaming the problem on something else. It is a community problem from what you are telling me, not a private vs. public issue. Covington Holmes for example has created an alternative program that deals with such kids. I do not know the success rate, but I do know that the troubled kids who would otherwise stay in the public school are no longer present. I believe it has improved the quality of education in their district. They are being proactive IMO. As for your other question, private schools are not limited in the actions that they can take against a student for discpilinary issues.

  13. #58

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman32
    That is not the case where I live. Secondly, you probably need to clean up your own area and address the issue instead of balming the problem on something else. It is a community problem from what you are telling me, not a private vs. public issue. Covington Holmes for example has created an alternative program that deals with such kids. I do not know the success rate, but I do know that the troubled kids who would otherwise stay in the public school are no longer present. I believe it has improved the quality of education in their district. They are being proactive IMO. As for your other question, private schools are not limited in the actions that they can take against a student for discpilinary issues.
    And I agree and have said that early. The problems that have resulted in the disparity are problems the KHSAA cannot address. Their only actions can be to tweak the current system or to modify drastically the current system to allow HS athletics to operate in the society we have. The KHSAA cannot solve societal issues.

    Most schools have gone to an alternative school because they cannot expel students.

    So you are saying where a resource student can only be suspended by public school for a MAXIMUM of 10 days in one school year, a private school does not have that limitation and could expel him from their school where a public school could not do that.

  14. #59

    Join Date
    Aug 04
    Location
    Retired From BGP
    Posts
    6,680

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    And I agree and have said that early. The problems that have resulted in the disparity are problems the KHSAA cannot address. Their only actions can be to tweak the current system or to modify drastically the current system to allow HS athletics to operate in the society we have. The KHSAA cannot solve societal issues.

    Most schools have gone to an alternative school because they cannot expel students.

    So you are saying where a resource student can only be suspended by public school for a MAXIMUM of 10 days in one school year, a private school does not have that limitation and could expel him from their school where a public school could not do that.
    I am sure the second is true, the first is not in my district. Because of the "alternative HS's" that all of our county's share in NKY, admision back to the original HS is not necessarily a given. I am not a school administrator, so I admit my perception may be incorrect, but I don't think so.

    With that said, it is not the KHSAA's job to even the playing field for ineffective school systems IMO. Surely someone in those communities needs to step up and innitiate a change.

  15. #60

    Join Date
    Aug 05
    Posts
    4,912

    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    So you are saying where a resource student can only be suspended by public school for a MAXIMUM of 10 days in one school year, a private school does not have that limitation and could expel him from their school where a public school could not do that.
    Private schools can expel a student for not conforming to the dress code.

Top