Should Penn State Get the Death Penalty?

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 12:44 PM

How about this:

Acme Medical is a blue chip corporate law firm. One of the associate attorneys sees a junior partner with the firm molesting a child, and tells a full partner. That partner, another partner, and the CEO all are informed and decide to cover up the situation, and no one else finds out. Finally the kid comes forward and presses charges against his molester, and the situation is made public down. People go to jail, the associate, the two full partners and the CEO are all canned.

Does the bar association come in and disbar any of the other attorneys who knew nothing? Should the company be forced into closing its doors?

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFan

I don't recall the "Lack of Institutional Control" reason for applying the Death Penalty mentioning anything about a minimum number required!! It seems obvious to me the Death Penalty would be applicable to the situation that has been uncovered at Penn State. I would argue it is much worse than the SMU situation of years past were the Death Penalty was given.

If the reason for the application of the penalty is "Lack Of Institutional Control", and those who controlled the institution have already resigned, then why punish the new folks?

**Crash Davis** · Jul 13, 12, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

How about this:

Acme Medical is a blue chip corporate law firm. One of the associate attorneys sees a junior partner with the firm molesting a child, and tells a full partner. That partner, another partner, and the CEO all are informed and decide to cover up the situation, and no one else finds out. Finally the kid comes forward and presses charges against his molester, and the situation is made public down. People go to jail, the associate, the two full partners and the CEO are all canned.

Does the bar association come in and disbar any of the other attorneys who knew nothing? Should the company be forced into closing its doors?

Not a good example. The NCAA isn't telling the players they can't participate anymore. Disbarring an attorney would make them find a new career. If the doors are closed they can always find another job "attorneying". Additionally, if everyone is canned then you do nothing, IMO.

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

Not a good example. The NCAA isn't telling the players they can't participate anymore. Disbarring an attorney would make them find a new career. If the doors are closed they can always find another job "attorneying". Additionally, if everyone is canned then you do nothing, IMO.

Fair enough...I was admittedly struggling to find a business type where there is a governing body capable of laying down a punishment on the actual company, much like the NCAA can lay down a punishment on Penn State.

I just keep looking at it and seeing that pretty much every person in authority over the football program is gone now. I can't really see the punishment fitting, seeing as the punishment will be completely coming down on the underlings in the school/football program that had absolutely nothing to do with it. The only point of the "punishment", therefore, is to make an example...and the example will be made of people who are absolutely innocent.

**Crash Davis** · Jul 13, 12, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Fair enough...I was admittedly struggling to find a business type where there is a governing body capable of laying down a punishment on the actual company, much like the NCAA can lay down a punishment on Penn State.

I just keep looking at it and seeing that pretty much every person in authority over the football program is gone now. I can't really see the punishment fitting, seeing as the punishment will be completely coming down on the underlings in the school/football program that had absolutely nothing to do with it. The only point of the "punishment", therefore, is to make an example...and the example will be made of people who are absolutely innocent.

But that's what the NCAA does all the time. The school gets probation while the coach is somewhere else, without restriction.

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

But that's what the NCAA does all the time. The school gets probation while the coach is somewhere else, without restriction.

...that sounds like a problem with the NCAA to me.

**Crash Davis** · Jul 13, 12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

...that sounds like a problem with the NCAA to me.

Agreed

**Hatz** · Jul 13, 12, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Okay, transfer. Legitimate possibility.

So what happens when a Penn State player had a starting position with players that they had been practicing and playing with for 1, 2, or 3 years straight, and now all of the sudden, they have to find a place to play, learn their schemes, play sets, and playbook, and then beat out other guys who were already division 1A starters?

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to transfer successfully, but man, that's no easy road. Seems like that's a pretty tough penalty to impose when A) the player had absolutely nothing to do and absolutely no knowledge of any child molesting, B) the administrators (even including the president of the university) that were involved are all gone.

You mean like they will have to do if they reach the NFL?

I understand your point, I just think that with an open transfer policy for them, anyone good enough to play somewhere else will. Anyone good enough to make the NFL will, no matter where they finish their career.

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hatz

You mean like they will have to do if they reach the NFL?

I understand your point, I just think that with an open transfer policy for them, anyone good enough to play somewhere else will. Anyone good enough to make the NFL will, no matter where they finish their career.

What about football scholarship players who aren't NFL prospects...but now lost their program and thereby their scholarship? Out of luck?

**OlDog75** · Jul 13, 12, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by woodsrider

Doesn't matter if his intent was to harm them or not. The fact is he put his program's well being above that of these childern. I don't care what good Joe Pa did, this over shadows all of it. If he were alive he should go to prison.

He may already be. We don't know how he was judged by his Creator.

**Porky** · Jul 13, 12, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Okay, transfer. Legitimate possibility.

So what happens when a Penn State player had a starting position with players that they had been practicing and playing with for 1, 2, or 3 years straight, and now all of the sudden, they have to find a place to play, learn their schemes, play sets, and playbook, and then beat out other guys who were already division 1A starters?

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to transfer successfully, but man, that's no easy road. Seems like that's a pretty tough penalty to impose when A) the player had absolutely nothing to do and absolutely no knowledge of any child molesting, B) the administrators (even including the president of the university) that were involved are all gone.

Won't they have to do that anyway if they plan to play in the NFL? Seems like a very similar transition. They would just have to do it twice and it would make them better prepared for the opportunity to play in the NFL. It would be a tough road I agree but it can be done. If I were a student or a player there I would strongly consider transferring anyway. JMO

**Colonels_Wear_Blue** · Jul 13, 12, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Porky

Won't they have to do that anyway if they plan to play in the NFL? Seems like a very similar transition. They would just have to do it twice and it would make them better prepared for the opportunity to play in the NFL. It would be a tough road I agree but it can be done. If I were a student or a player there I would strongly consider transferring anyway. JMO

I agree...but the way I see it, Penn State football players are no different from players on any other D1 college football team. They worked their butts off, and they are playing in a big time college football program, and they had no knowledge of or involvement in any kind of child molestation. Why should Penn State football players be put through ALL of the trouble of transferring out of their NCAA Division 1 football program when they've done nothing any different from any other NCAA Division 1 football player?

Office of the President - NCAA.org

The NCAA Mission:

“Our mission is to be an integral part of higher education and to focus on the development of our student-athletes.”

What would be "developed" for the Penn State athletes by axing their program...particularly the guys who aren't NFL prospects??

**westsider** · Jul 13, 12, 03:55 PM

The NCAA has no jurisdiction in this matter. It's an issue that will be addressed by the legal system.

**Hatz** · Jul 13, 12, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

What about football scholarship players who aren't NFL prospects...but now lost their program and thereby their scholarship? Out of luck?

Nothing says the school can't honor those scholarships for education. No one says they can't transfer to other schools, it happens all the time now.

**Hatz** · Jul 13, 12, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

I agree...but the way I see it, Penn State football players are no different from players on any other D1 college football team. They worked their butts off, and they are playing in a big time college football program, and they had no knowledge of or involvement in any kind of child molestation. Why should Penn State football players be put through ALL of the trouble of transferring out of their NCAA Division 1 football program when they've done nothing any different from any other NCAA Division 1 football player?

Office of the President - NCAA.org

What would be "developed" for the Penn State athletes by axing their program...particularly the guys who aren't NFL prospects??

Can not the same excuse be used for any school placed on probation by the NCAA? Many times the players had nothing to do with the reasons for the punishment but they are the ones punished for the infractions of those who came before.

I've noticed that when we first started debating in the last page or so you merely spoke of the ones that had NFL possibilities. I noted that this would be the same thing they would encounter in the NFL.

Now the argument seems to be for all the players (which is a fair argument to make IMO). But the truth is that sometimes our company closes down and employees have to move on or find another job. It happens in real life to more than just the 90 or so on a D 1 team. They've worked hard for years and find they are no longer needed. It's just that these guys have to face it earlier in life.

**birdseye** · Jul 13, 12, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by CoachBuckett

No. It didnt break NCAA rules.

0 NCAA rules broken = 0 NCAA penalties. Let the law handle throwing Curley, and Spanier in jail. Sandusky will be under the jail. Done.

**gametime** · Jul 13, 12, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by birdseye

0 NCAA rules broken = 0 NCAA penalties. Let the law handle throwing Curley, and Spanier in jail. Sandusky will be under the jail. Done.

Lack of institutional control is most certainly breaking the rules...

**formerkywrestler** · Jul 13, 12, 09:11 PM

My thinking is the people who were responsible for those heinous acts are the ones who built the program to what it is. I do not think the university should be allowed to prosper from the program responsible for that. I say give PSU the death penalty unless they are willing to forfeit ALL football revenue to a charity for abused children.

**SportsGuy41017** · Jul 13, 12, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by gametime

Lack of institutional control is most certainly breaking the rules...

I agree! People forget, that is in the rules so yes it is an NCAA issue, like it or not! If they are not going to show back-bone now, the NCAA is in a sad state of affairs, worse than we ever thought. Penn State isn't going to do enough, look at one of their trustees who said it's not a Penn State issue, and it's not a football issue. REALLY? Most people know that Paterno and the football program ran Penn State. Wasn't Sandusky named head coach in waiting even after the first situation?

Just a couple of years ago I would have said Paterno was a great football coach and an outstanding human-being, last year I would have said the same thing and that he didn't know what was going on. Now I see him as what he really was all a long, a piece of garbage! They should remove him from the NCAA Hall Of Fame as well. Up until recently I wanted to go see a football game at Penn State, but Sandusky, Paterno, and how the university has handled this I wouldn't step foot near the place.

**Jumper_Dad** · Jul 13, 12, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by 2 Humped Camel

IMO if a school ever needed the death penalty it's Penn State. If football is bigger than stopping child sexual abuse, what could possibly be a better example of lack of institutional control?

Agree 100%

Originally Posted by CoachBuckett

No. It didnt break NCAA rules.

Question was "Should" they get it not will they. Yes they should, but your point is correct and they probably won't.

Originally Posted by BigGreenHorse

The recruits and prospective students should kill it by not going there

I think that is what will happen.